VCDQuality Forums - LOTR2 = Good Film or Dog Poop??

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Posted by Ocyurus on 01-28-2003 05:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by 404notfound
There are better films out there which deserve more recognition.

what the Fellowship?

P.S. we need that emoticon on here, until then I will just have to link to it....

Posted by 404notfound on 01-28-2003 05:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ocyurus
what the Fellowship?

What? Are you crazy? No...not the sodding fellowship.

OTHER films. I dunno.. Amelie for example.

404

p.s . Do you mean this emoticon?

__________________

Posted by walldude on 01-28-2003 09:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ocyurus

I heard that quite a bit from a few people, but what I ask you is why? Why would reading the Lord of the Rings spoil the story for you? Watching to movie without reading them spoiled it more considering the movie just barely includes the basic plot telling you all the important details without letting you in on all the amazing things that happen in between.

But if you do read the books before The Return of the King movie comes out I would highly suggest starting at The Fellowship of the Ring but if you won't then you at least have to start at The Two Towers because they cut out about half of the book (The Battle of the Hornburg (Helm's Deep) was only chapter 7 in a 21 chapter book...)

Once I read the books I know everything, who lives, who dies, what happens, I would rather be suprised at the movies, then read the books, then watch the extended versions of the movies on DVD and I'll have all the blanks filled in. Maybe it's just a matter of personal taste.

I do understand what you are saying though, nothing drives me more crazy than people pissing on Star Wars for not having "character development" If you read the books you'll have more character development then you care to deal with. Alot of people are just too fucking lazy to read. At least here we're discussing "when" to read and not "books suck d00d"

And while I agree neither FOTR or TTT is the "greatest" film ever (That would be The Godfather) they are both in my top 10..

Posted by ArchdemoN on 01-29-2003 05:48 PM:

movie was incredible.

i loved it.

Posted by Ocyurus on 01-29-2003 06:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by walldude
Once I read the books I know everything, who lives, who dies, what happens, I would rather be suprised at the movies, then read the books, then watch the extended versions of the movies on DVD and I'll have all the blanks filled in. Maybe it's just a matter of personal taste.

I do understand what you are saying though, nothing drives me more crazy than people pissing on Star Wars for not having "character development" If you read the books you'll have more character development then you care to deal with. Alot of people are just too fucking lazy to read. At least here we're discussing "when" to read and not "books suck d00d"

And while I agree neither FOTR or TTT is the "greatest" film ever (That would be The Godfather) they are both in my top 10..

I do understand your view-point (sorta) but my personal opinion would rule that since they took the story from the books and they are simply trying to make a film copy of it wouldn't reading the book be more of a surprise when someone dies or something unexpected happens? A lot of stuff was changed in The Two Towers and personally I would rule that Tolkien's version was MUCH better.

If you watch the movies first then the entire basic plot will already be revealed to you and it will spoil the book's extraordinary detail. I liked knowing the story long before seeing the movie and seeing how Peter Jackson saw the people/places in the story, many were very different to what I originally imagined, and many were exactly the same.

The main problem I have with knowing the story beforehand is my desire to inform all the un-enlightened folk how it ends.

Posted by Pra3t0 on 01-29-2003 07:29 PM:

I didn't like it as much as FOTR.

Here's my list of TTT nitpicks:

1. Merry & Pippin are stuck in the tree for 95% of the movie. Each time a scene returned to them and they were still in the tree I felt it just got to be ridiculous.

2. As soon as Treebeard opened his eyes and started walking around the movie started having a "Neverending Story" feel to it. Like a kids movie. I didn't like that. If the trees could walk and had a mouth to talk out of that was enough for me. The eyes, ears, and nose were unecessary and made the movie feel like a kid's variety show.

3. The way the Ents were animated... they didn't seem to have weight. Watch the T-Rex in Jurassic Park. Every time it stomped the camera shook. The animators failed to translate this weight on to the screen. If their surrounding environment wasn't there to give us a sense of scale I'd say the Ents were about 2-feet tall.

4. I assume the White Wizard that Treebeard takes Merry and Pippin to see is Gandalf. If so, what happened? Merry and Pippin say nothing about it later. Neither does Gandalf. ??? weird.

5. I was impressed with the Gollum animation. But felt the animators used cartoon style movement rather than real-life movement. Gollum moved like a character out of Toy Story instead of something that was supposed to be real. Good animation? Yes. Lifelike? No. The only guy I've seen who's been able to animate creatures with lifelike believability is Phil Tippett. And puppets still work better than anything. Look at E.T.! No computer graphics, yet he's real as can be. CG character animation still has a long way to go before it fools me into thinking the character is real.

6. King Theoden of Rohan. This guy pissed me off. Was he a strong man? Was he a weak man? Was he courageous? Was he a wimp? The script couldn't make up its' mind. And the hair. Nice wig Goldilocks.

7. If Saruman could cause an avalanche from hundreds of miles away in FOTR, why did he stand there so helplessly as the Ents destroyed Isengard? He just stood on the balcony looking around for 10 minutes.

8. Lady Eowyn showed skill with a sword. She disappears during battle at Helmsdeep. I know she's underground with the people of Rohan, but they could've at least shown her a couple more times. She was just gone. It's like they built up her character as an Aragorn love interest and possible warrior like she was going to be somebody and then pretty much eliminated her character after Aragon returns from his fall off the cliff. Why? I felt ripped off.

9. And finally, why the hell did it take Gandalf (a powerful wizard) 5 frickin' days to find the riders of Rohan for the battle at Helmsdeep?

Okay, I'm done.

Posted by Ocyurus on 01-29-2003 10:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Pra3t0
I didn't like it as much as FOTR.

Here's my list of TTT nitpicks....

1. I don't know why, Peter Jackson just wanted to make sure you knew that Merry and Pippin rode around on top of Treebeard whenever he took them somewhere....

2. Blame the 'Neverending Story' feeling that you got on the animators, I personally liked the way they animated the Ents (almost but I would have changed a few things). And Tolkien described the Ents very well and you can't just get rid of their eyes (they were the most distinguised part of them), mouth, nose, beard so on... And another thing about that is you are a jerk and now I have that stupid song in my head and the only line that I know is "Neverending Story! LaLaLaLa! which just keeps playing over and over in my head! (grrrr!

)

3. Another thing I probably would have changed but just blame it on the animators, perhaps that is why Merry and Pip are always on top of him to show that he is 14' high?

4. When Gandalf met Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli he said "You track a band of two young hobbits? They passed this way, the day before yesterday. They met someone they did not expect!"

5. Andy Serkis who not only did the voice for Gollum also did the movements wearing some sort of suit (don't ask me what kind, some kinda suit that captures movements...) to help the animators with Gollum's movements so if he doesn't move right then it is just because he is bleedin' 500 year old wretched, slimy creature that has a spine that points at a 45 degree angle

6. Umm, what? In the books he was very courageous, he struck me as a bit indecisive but still brave in the movie. He was just a victim of them trying to make every character in the movie go against what the audience wants them to do until the very finale when they all changed their minds (i.e. Theoden, Treebeard, Faramir...)

7. In the book he didn't make the avalanche, the mountain just didn't like people climbing it... As for Saruman, what could he have done? He had emptied his entire army to Helm's Deep, he was alone in the tower of Orthanc. He did put up quite a bit of a fight in the book but that was cut out for time constraints. (He sprayed napalm on one of the ents for example)

8. She will come back big time in The Return of the King, she'll almost get killed too but you'll see. We can just say Frodo will have one less enemy...

9. And you suppose it would take you less time to ride on horse-back 500 leagues out over a very wide plain to gather several thousand men of an infantry and guide them 1000 leagues to a huge battle so they can slide down a rocky steep cliff onto a wall of pikes?

Well if that is all hope it helped, oh and read the books!

Posted by Pra3t0 on 01-30-2003 04:10 PM:

I think most people would liked to have seen Merry & Pippin do more than just sit in a tree the whole movie.

"...a Neh-ver-en-ding Stor-oreee! Ah-uh-ah... ah-uh-ah... ah-uh-ah..."

Okay, so Gandalf DID mention he saw Merry & Pippin afterall. So why was he hanging out in Fangorn forest waiting for Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli to come by? Why didn't he just go directly to them and meet up with them halfway?

I'd like to see somebody put on a motion capture suit and move around the same way Gollum did in the film. I saw a lot of impossible physics going on. Those movements are so noticeable. And when they aren't, they register in the subconscious as "fake".

Theoden in the books is probably a great guy. In the film he's "Let's get 'em!!!" one minute and "Game over man..." the next. Every time he got down, Aragorn had to give him a pep talk. This happened a couple of times, at which point my eyes rolled back in my head.

In FOTR, Saruman DOES cause the avalanche. You need to stop talking about what happens in the books. I'm talking about the movies. I would've liked to have seen something incredible from Saruman. A couple of powerful wizard attempts to stop the Ents. Attempts which fail but provide us with some great visual effects. And also demonstrate Saruman's power and why someone can't simply just walk up and stab the guy.

I think the way Eowyn's character is shown in TTT is a result of the mistakes that can be made when you film three movies at the same time. Peter Jackson can't add footage he doesn't have. And it's too late to go back and reshoot now.

Someone else could've been sent to gather infantry. Gandalf would've been more useful standing behind Helmsdeep's walls, casting spells, etc. He could've stopped the bomb. He could've thrown all the Orcs off the bridge. Cool stuff like that.

I'm nitpicking the movie. Stop mentioning the books! I'm sure they're very good.

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