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-- SVCD>SVCD (http://www.vcdhq.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=60974)

SVCD>SVCD

First off, I'll admit that I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to encoding.. I've only made a few SVCDs of my own since I started (not counting the ones I've acquired).

Basically, I'm trying to figure out the best way to re-encode a downloaded SVCD file as an SVCD file, without losing quality. Used to be I had to shrink the files down a touch to fit on the smaller CDs I had, but I've finally fixed that by buying bigger CDs (80min.. new DVD player can read 'em, old one couldn't). But now I'm wanting to convert a PAL SVCD to an NTSC SVCD. I know, I know.. asked and answered a bajillion times over. I don't even bother with the fancy stuff, I just load the PAL video into TMPEGEnc and tell it to spit out NTSC 29.97, done, good enough for me. So that's not what I'm asking about...

Problem is, I don't know the first thing about properly encoding and compressing these things. I always lose massive amounts of quality.. end up with a lot of compression artifacts and such throughout the new file (and sometimes get some glitches when I'm watching, but that's neither here nor there).

Is there some sort of sequence I can follow to minimize the recompression damage to the video? VBR, etc? Or some sort of "direct stream copy" like VirtualDub has that can fix the aspect ratio without recompressing? (I know that's just wishful thinking, but it couldn't hurt to ask).

try using canopus procoder instead of tmpge

Get a region code hack for your DVD player......so it can play PAL.

Or buy a $39 DVD player that does the conversion on the fly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by F0ur2o
Get a region code hack for your DVD player......so it can play PAL.

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I'm not worried about PAL>NTSC conversion, I've got that taken care of. I just want to make sure the movies maintain their original quality through the conversion, is all.

Ideally, is there a way to analyze the existing VBR of the file and re-encode it using those exact settings? Since the image size is smaller, this should (in theory) result in no visible loss of quality.

Assuming the SVCDs are PAL progressive 25fps, I would suggest a process like this:

1. Extract MPG file from the BIN.

2. Use TMPGEnc to demux the MPG into video and audio streams.

3. Use Goldwave to slow down the audio 25fps -> 23.976 fps.

4. Use VirtualDubMod or Avisynth to change the video framerate to 23.976 and downsample the vertical resolution to 480, and frameserve the video to CCE.

5. Use CCE to encode, VBR minimum of 2-pass (23.976 becomes 29.97 with 3:2 pulldown), calculate bitrate to make most effective use of 80min discs.

6. Use TMPGEnc to remux the new video and audio files.

7. Author and burn the new MPG to SVCD as usual.

Need any specific help with any of these steps just ask.

There are several reasons not to use that particular setup. For one, I'm referring specifically to TS's, and slowing them down would result in the entire film being slowed down (since regardless of PAL/NTSC, they're all running at the same speed). Not to mention that converting PAL TS's to NTSC 24fps results in many a lost frame (I've done it, it's... horrible). However, loading the PAL TS into the program and simply spitting it out as NTSC 30fps works like a charm. No dropped frames, no speed change. As I said, I don't need help with the framerate conversion, I've got that covered...

The step I need help with is the last one. The actual encoding. What setup in TMPEGEnc should I use to maintain quality through the re-encode?

by slowing down he means adjusting the audio frame rate from 25 fps to 23.976 fps for ntsc. Otherwise in 24 seconds your audio would be over a second out of sync. But that doesnt matter here.

The reason your work looks good in 29.970 and looks like shit at 23.976 is because a TS is video source. There is no film frame structure to rebuild. If your source was Pal dvd then it would have an extra 1.024 frames per second which would be removed when encoding it to ntsc 23.976 fps(provided it was film source to start). The TS is shot with a pal video cam that creates a 50 fields per second picture that interlaces to 25 frames per second. When you remove a "frame" you are not restoring it to original film frame rate but actually taking needed information out...hence the shitty look. since the source is video and what you need to watch a movie on ntsc tv is 29.970 fps you are doing the right thing to encode as "30"fps. If it was film source you would rebuild the original frame structure of "24"fps then perform a 3:2 pulldown to get the 30fps for tv viewing.

As for dealing with your problem...quite frankly I would listen to the suggestion about buying a new player. You spring for a 40 - 50 dollar player and just think...you will never have to deal with this problem again. your time has to be worth something to you, figure out how much and do a cost benefit analysis.

quote:

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Originally posted by Wanderer22
Ideally, is there a way to analyze the existing VBR of the file and re-encode it using those exact settings? Since the image size is smaller, this should (in theory) result in no visible loss of quality.

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I'm not 100% sure but I think that TS's are deinterlaced before encoding (for viewing on a PC). I don't have any immediately to hand that I can check right now.

quote:

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Originally posted by katsushin
If your source was Pal dvd then it would have an extra 1.024 frames per second which would be removed when encoding it to ntsc 23.976 fps(provided it was film source to start). The TS is shot with a pal video cam that creates a 50 fields per second picture that interlaces to 25 frames per second. When you remove a "frame" you are not restoring it to original film frame rate but actually taking needed information out...hence the shitty look. since the source is video and what you need to watch a movie on ntsc tv is 29.970 fps you are doing the right thing to encode as "30"fps. If it was film source you would rebuild the original frame structure of "24"fps then perform a 3:2 pulldown to get the 30fps for tv viewing.

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thanks for straightening me out on that. In the future any speaking out of my ass I do will be kept to myself.

im confused...

i still cant understand why you want to convert to NTSC? if the original source was PAL (you didnt say), why change the framerate and risk ending upwith jerky playback?

Im fairly new to this myself, but it seems like your just making work for yourself. If you must, mother has given you a good solution!

As for your machine, it shouldnt make a difference if your svcd is PAL or NTSC, it should still play it! like someone said earlier, PAL/NTSC is completely different from region coding!

But good luck, hope you accomplish what your tryin to do

quote:

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Originally posted by pitvipah
im confused...

i still cant understand why you want to convert to NTSC? if the original source was PAL (you didnt say), why change the framerate and risk ending upwith jerky playback?

Im fairly new to this myself, but it seems like your just making work for yourself. If you must, mother has given you a good solution!

As for your machine, it shouldnt make a difference if your svcd is PAL or NTSC, it should still play it! like someone said earlier, PAL/NTSC is completely different from region coding!

But good luck, hope you accomplish what your tryin to do

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ahhh...i see, now i know where u r coming from!

didnt realise those players were still around, i threw mine out with my van halen t shirts....time to buy a new machine m8, peanuts these days, but thats just me, too lazy and impatient

It is a new machine, actually. But from my experience, most of the multi-format players are on the lower end of the specturm.. no-name brands that I've never heard of before.

Besides, since I only burn maybe two films a year, it's not worth it to get a half-ass player, might as well get a good one. And those are region-specific. And if the film I want is released in NTSC format from the get-go, it won't make any difference, I'll just burn it and go.

just a question, but why are you converting from svcd to svcd?

PAL SVCD-->NTSC SVCD.

I just didn't specify the PAL>NTSC because I don't need help with that part of it.. It's been asked so many times that a search will give me a hundred methods to pick from.. the only part I needed help with was the compression settings for the re-encode.