VCDQuality Forums - Meet The Fockers *PROPER* *NTSC* - DVDRIP

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- DVDR (http://forum.vcdq.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=24)
-- Meet The Fockers *PROPER* *NTSC* - DVDRIP - MPTDVD (http://forum.vcdq.com/showthread.php?threadid=60856)

Posted by carlupq on 03-30-2005 11:34 PM:

That was a quick nuke!

Claims CCE was used. Anyone know why it was nuked already? Makes you wonder if it is a legit nuke...

Posted by ar_elite on 03-30-2005 11:38 PM:

That was a fast and firm nuke... I'm not even bothering checking this one out...

Posted by JoshNya on 03-31-2005 03:56 AM:

Are these guys serious? Who propers with using DVDShrink?? Geeze.. Nuked on every site... Thought it was a joke at first, kinda funny how MPT trying to act like they know what their saying hehe.

Posted by Carlitosbaby on 03-31-2005 06:33 AM:

maybe shinbet will do a real proper next using dvd shrink as well lol

Posted by cloudspear on 03-31-2005 07:30 AM:

i don't know why any group would use dvdshrink, if cce is too hard for them to learn then at least use dvdrebuilder with cce rather than use dvdshrink cause dvdrb have one click mode feature also and if their excuse is they can't install dvdrb correctlly with all those direction then download the dvdrb easy setup that install everything and set it all up for them too, then they could just do 3 click and done.

Posted by porco556 on 03-31-2005 06:25 PM:

I know I'll get bitch slapped hard for this, but this release is actually better than the BHP.

First, I downloaded the samples. I checked out the DVD-9, BHP and MPT comparison. The BHP was not good. The DVD-9 was pretty good (they used that odd senior citizen dancing/sex scene, which has lots going on). The bitrate of the original DVD-9 sample was hitting 6-8mbit/sec, BHP was mid 3-4mbit/sec and MPT was 4-5mbit/sec. I wish MPT used the exact same clip for each of the samples.

MPTs had much less artifacting around the edges and looked better (far from perfect though), which was my main complaint with the BHP version.

So, then I got the release (thinking that MPT only did a decent job on the sample), but it looked still better than the BHP release.

Now, the retail doesn't look too good to begin with, but MPT is not a bad representation of the retail.

Math came out correct too (3,984,525,312bytes for the main movie, which is approx. the 4004kbit/sec + 448kbit for the 5.1 sound). But math could have been made up to give the appearance of CCE.

Interlacing? I didn't see it in the BHP copy, so I dunno where to look. Other than the menu, which is "interlace city" on both releases.

Extras were all ripped excepted for the extended scenes (a full 600megs of it). No commentary track on this either.

Was this DVDShrink?! I dunno. Looks way too good for that. But it was mentioned above. I estimate the orig video at a high 5 gigs or low 6gigs. Which would make this around a 65-70% DVD Shrink. Which would look like puke (to my eyes that is).

I am still skeptical of MPT, but this release was pretty good. I could have done without the extra scenes, but oh well.

Technically this release wasn't needed though. The BHP did look crappy, but that's no reason to release a proper. Should have been internal. Personally I hate the politics of that though. Looking forward to the ShinBet *REAL ACTUAL SUPER PROPER PROPER* release

What this does come down to is, you like extras, keep the BHP. You like video quality (I can't believe I am typing this), give the MPT a shot.

Anyone else check this release out? I'm interested what other people thought.

WHOOPs. Forgot to vote...

Video 8/10 - The retail doesn't look too good (super ass grainy... Looks like it was filmed in the early 90's), and this ain't too bad compared to the retail. Better than BHP to my eyes.

DVD-R 9/10 - Nice to see less extras and an extra 700kbit/sec on the video. MPT or not, this wasn't bad. Only thing left IMO is the interlacing (wherever that is)...

Posted by porco556 on 03-31-2005 06:34 PM:

Oh, and I got that DVDInfoPro 3.55 proggy and here is the info I got from the MPT. Not sure what it means just yet (the "Derrow UDF/ISO"). Hopefully somebody knows I did this through a mounted image, do I need to burn it to get the actual info?

Media code/Manufacturer ID N/A Pressed DVD
Format Type UDF 1.02
Volume Name MEET_THE_FOCKERS
Application id Derrow UDF/ISO Applicat
Implementation id Derrow UDF/ISO Library
Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 3/30/2005 13:35:03

::EDIT::
OK, so searching around. Derrow is DVDXCopy. Can be used for re-authoring menus, or re-doing entire releases (including video recodes)... Hmm... Never used DVDXCopy myself.

Posted by JoshNya on 04-01-2005 01:41 AM:

I'll keep the CCE one, u go ahead and keep your DVDXCopy rls porco556

Posted by TuRDMaN on 04-01-2005 01:51 AM:

DVDXCopy is one of the first 1 clickers as far as I know. I feel dirty saying that I've actually used it before..... but it was when I first got my burner and I didn't know any better . I don't know why anyone would use it for anything, but you could probably get better results shrinking video by sticking a DVD in a bag and squeezing it.

Posted by porco556 on 04-01-2005 03:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JoshNya
I'll keep the CCE one, u go ahead and keep your DVDXCopy rls porco556

I dunno... I don't think the video was encoded with DVDXCopy (I'm assuming that they have a cheapy encoder/transcoder 1 pass jobby). Way too good for that, especially that it looks better too on the big screen than the BHP one.

The funny part is I'm going to end up renting this one and doing it myself, so this is all for not. Oh well.

::EDIT:: Someone told me that this DVD could have been mastered with IFOEdit (Derrow is the guy that wrote IFOEdit). He did join the "DVDXCopy team" (from a previous post, I think from you), but doesn't mean his other software isn't still out there. Could it be possible we may be jumping to a conclusion on this "Derrow" issue?

Posted by JoshNya on 04-01-2005 04:36 AM:

I dont think you can image and remaster a whole DVD in IFOEdit, but you can in DVDXCopy. Besides, u know if it was actually CCE then imgtool would have been used.... Stop trying to make excuses for a one-click group. Thought u of all people would be the last to kiss MPT butt. :/

(When in rome, i suppose...)

Posted by porco556 on 04-01-2005 04:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JoshNya
I dont think you can image and remaster a whole DVD in IFOEdit, but you can in DVDXCopy. Besides, u know if it was actually CCE then imgtool would have been used.... Stop trying to make excuses for a one-click group. Thought u of all people would be the last to kiss MPT butt. :/

(When in rome, i suppose...)

True enough. I sure do not like one-click programs myself and never have I used them once (except for experimenting). I just find it hard to believe that DVDXCopy did produce that video. I'm a CCE guy to the end, but this wasn't bad (pretty good actually).

But after a stiff drink, I'm retiring from this defence

I must have enjoyed the movie more the second time and let some stuff by. Can't believe I wasted 9 gigs on both these releases, and then comes another $4 to rent it in a couple weeks

God... This DVD-R stuff is becoming an illness for me... I do this 4-10 times a week (everything that comes out at Blockbuster), pretty much every release that comes out (ie: download, erase, rent in a week or two, rip)

Not to mention, I pretty much camp out on this site, even at work during the day. Maybe I should get banned off this site. That may solve some issues.

Worse part is, I can't believe I defended MPT

hahaha... I'm registering into a loony bin tomorrow

Posted by HaLiKuS on 04-01-2005 04:53 PM:

DvdXcopy is far supperior to Dvdshrink, and is what i setup for my idiot friends that rent alot.

quote:
.. I do this 4-10 times a week (everything that comes out at Blockbuster), pretty much every release that comes out (ie: download, erase, rent in a week or two, rip)

No shit, I cant wait for the nice weather so I can go outside away from my TV.

I normally get the CCE jobs but this one is a supperior copy to the last rip. I dont care what encodes it, as long as the end result is good.

Posted by Redemption198 on 04-01-2005 06:30 PM:

I have no idea about DVD X Copy, but if this is a DVDXCopy then im ditching CCE from now on.

This looks much better than the BHP release, and i personally feel DVDR's should be propered on Quality, lets have more choices.

There seems to be a snobbery with CCE on here, and it has nothing to do with Quality.

8/9/7

Posted by porco556 on 04-01-2005 06:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redemption1980
I have no idea about DVD X Copy, but if this is a DVDXCopy then im ditching CCE from now on.

This looks much better than the BHP release, and i personally feel DVDR's should be propered on Quality, lets have more choices.

There seems to be a snobbery with CCE on here, and it has nothing to do with Quality.

8/9/7

I dunno if it is snobbery as much as CCE has been a) a standard for a long time and it's hard to accept anything new, and b) it has been tried, tested and true to many different tests over the past 2 years.

Things to think about in these releases are, the BHP release was around 3250kbit/sec, while this one (MPT) has an extra approx. 750kbit/sec on the video. This one does look better, but until a version done with CCE at 4004kbit/sec is done, it is hard to say which is better. I believe that the CCE would prevail (not snobby, just my opinion from experience).

I also do agree this version looks better than the BHP one (as I ranted above). But some might disagree and like the slightly sharper image on the BHP release (at the expense of the artifacting around the edges).

Honestly, this release should have been 4600kbit/sec CCE without the damn extended scenes. I watched it once with those scenes, the video on my TV goes from 16:9 to 4:3 with black bars. So stupid. Where is the American Wedding style extended scenes (keep forgetting what it's called... Sub streaming angles or something. both versions in the same VOB set).

I also kept the MPT one for now, but I wouldn't be too hasty on getting rid of CCE just because one release.

HaLiKuS, I too am going to recommend to my friends this DVDXCopy instead of Shrink. And I went outside for lunch

The cheap showingness of nature (and tall buildings) however still can't compete with the VCDQ forums

j/k...

Posted by grouch on 04-01-2005 08:58 PM:

here's the info taken from the 3 different sample files, for all those who want to kno...i can get results for the movie from the dvdr's if needed, but not the dvd9...

BHP's sample
peak bt- 5626
avg bt- 3777
Num. of picture read: 2174
Nom. bitrate: 9352000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Field topfirst: Yes
Variable GOP pattern: NOT FOUND

MPTDVD's sample
peak bt- 5890
avg bt- 4220
um. of picture read: 2633
Nom. bitrate: 9800000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Field topfirst: No
Variable GOP pattern: FOUND

DVD9's
peak bt- 8492
avg bt- 5322
Num. of picture read: 1630
Nom. bitrate: 9800000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Field topfirst: No
Variable GOP pattern: FOUND
-----------------------------
Details constant of all 3 files:

Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 720*480
Aspect ratio: 16:9 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Progressive
Scene change detection: FOUND

Posted by Redemption198 on 04-01-2005 10:50 PM:

porco556, I agree that CCE is the best way to re-encode a DVD down, and should be used by the groups on all release's. im just finishing off a 9Pass on the Extras Disc of Oldboy, and it looks damn near identical even though it had to be compressed down to about 60% of the original size, something no Transcoder could manage at the quality im used too.

My gripe is people assuming what release will be better without even looking at them first, this looks better, whether CCE was used or not, i personally believe it was though, but i agree this should of been a movie only encode, i love extras myself, but believe movie should be priority.

Thanks for the Info grouch

Posted by TuRDMaN on 04-02-2005 02:43 AM:

As was briefly stated earlier, the fundamental difference between CCE and all the other 1 click programs is that CCE actually re-encodes the video, it doesn't just transcode it. Because of this, there's no way that DVDXCopy or DVDShrink or whatever could come close to it in quality. And as for DVDXCopy being better than DVDShrink, in my experience, DVDShrink with Deep Analysis and "high quality adaptive error compensation" yields better results than DVDXCopy

Posted by ridingontheme on 04-02-2005 04:55 PM:

anyone know wtf this is. Meet.The.Fockers.2004.NTSC.R1.DVDR.KORSUB-DvdXCopy

Posted by JoshNya on 04-02-2005 08:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ridingonthemeto
anyone know wtf this is. Meet.The.Fockers.2004.NTSC.R1.DVDR.KORSUB-DvdXCopy

Region One Korean Sub-Titled

-----------------------------------------------------

Ya, All one click programs suck! I will never support or use them in any way. As far as groups like MPT who consistantly use them, I wish they would drop out of the scene and stick with the kiddie age groups who think their godz. They don't belong with pros who use professional tools.

my .02

Posted by porco556 on 04-03-2005 08:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redemption1980
porco556, I agree that CCE is the best way to re-encode a DVD down, and should be used by the groups on all release's. im just finishing off a 9Pass on the Extras Disc of Oldboy, and it looks damn near identical even though it had to be compressed down to about 60% of the original size, something no Transcoder could manage at the quality im used too.

My gripe is people assuming what release will be better without even looking at them first, this looks better, whether CCE was used or not, i personally believe it was though, but i agree this should of been a movie only encode, i love extras myself, but believe movie should be priority.

Thanks for the Info grouch

Oldboy is going to be remade once more BTW. There's going to be an Oldboy coming out as a Hollywood production is 2006

Hehe... I wonder how good that will be. I haven't seen the Korean version yet, so no idea.

As for CCE, it will be around and probably the standard for a long time. However the life of "re-encoding" and these delightful forum threads are reaching their end soon. I was at the grocery store and saw dual layer discs there at 3 for $11.99 (which is actually cheaper than the $8 each they were 6-8 months ago). Right next to the $19.99 DVD players

Soon there will be no more downsampling and we'll all have Food Lion brand DL DVD-Rs and DVD players

The TRUE irony of the above is, I haven't seen DL discs at most electronics stores (Best Buy and Circuit City just started carrying them recently, few computer stores and that's about it), YET at Food Lion, I can pick some up?? They weren't Food Lion brand (Memorex actually), but still funny.

Posted by cloudspear on 04-03-2005 10:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by porco556
Oldboy is going to be remade once more BTW. There's going to be an Oldboy coming out as a Hollywood production is 2006 Hehe... I wonder how good that will be. I haven't seen the Korean version yet, so no idea.

As for CCE, it will be around and probably the standard for a long time. However the life of "re-encoding" and these delightful forum threads are reaching their end soon. I was at the grocery store and saw dual layer discs there at 3 for $11.99 (which is actually cheaper than the $8 each they were 6-8 months ago). Right next to the $19.99 DVD players Soon there will be no more downsampling and we'll all have Food Lion brand DL DVD-Rs and DVD players

The TRUE irony of the above is, I haven't seen DL discs at most electronics stores (Best Buy and Circuit City just started carrying them recently, few computer stores and that's about it), YET at Food Lion, I can pick some up?? They weren't Food Lion brand (Memorex actually), but still funny.

but by the time DL dvdr are afforable than blu ray and hd-dvd will be out so hmmm... lol those will not be cheap at first anyway and we will probably end up saying the same thing. can't wait till those hd-dvd are cheap so we could have perfect backup copy. that's the marketing in technolgy. introdution, growth, decline, then gone, time to re introdute something else new to make more money.

Posted by Redemption198 on 04-03-2005 12:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by porco556
Oldboy is going to be remade once more BTW. There's going to be an Oldboy coming out as a Hollywood production is 2006 Hehe... I wonder how good that will be. I haven't seen the Korean version yet, so no idea.

As for CCE, it will be around and probably the standard for a long time. However the life of "re-encoding" and these delightful forum threads are reaching their end soon. I was at the grocery store and saw dual layer discs there at 3 for $11.99 (which is actually cheaper than the $8 each they were 6-8 months ago). Right next to the $19.99 DVD players Soon there will be no more downsampling and we'll all have Food Lion brand DL DVD-Rs and DVD players

The TRUE irony of the above is, I haven't seen DL discs at most electronics stores (Best Buy and Circuit City just started carrying them recently, few computer stores and that's about it), YET at Food Lion, I can pick some up?? They weren't Food Lion brand (Memorex actually), but still funny.

I haven't got round to watching Oldboy yet, it was a Rental i Got, nearly 14GB of it, but it looks damn good, and i dont see any remake being as good, they never are.

Ive noticed the DL Discs are coming down, i can burn them with the burner im using, but never considered getting one at the prices they are, and no fun in them either, i enjoy stripping/Downsampling the discs, with DVD Remake then CCE, then IFO Edit.

cloudspear, your right about the Marketing of Technology, unfortunately im a total sucker for it all LOL.

Posted by porco556 on 04-03-2005 08:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cloudspear
but by the time DL dvdr are afforable than blu ray and hd-dvd will be out so hmmm... lol those will not be cheap at first anyway and we will probably end up saying the same thing. can't wait till those hd-dvd are cheap so we could have perfect backup copy. that's the marketing in technolgy. introdution, growth, decline, then gone, time to re introdute something else new to make more money.

To both Cloudspear and Redemption1980...

Hehe, the one time I don't mention HD-DVD/Blu-Ray it sneak up on me

Ya, I am looking forward to that too. I'll need to get a new TV too

But I can't wait for 1080p video and TV resolution. But that is going to be so expensive in the first 2-3 years that we'll be here for a while before we (general middle class working stiff [afford is estimated at around $5000 for a 73" 1080p TV]) can afford that.

Bandwidth will also have to increase. Blu-Ray's (if I remember correctly) are going to be 36gig average size (that's only a dual layer too. I believe in quad-layer discs they go up to 108gigs). Imagine the quality though, especially at 36mbit/sec (1920x1080 resolution though, so it is roughly 4x the resolution (720x480) and 4x the current DVD bitrate).

Another problem (which will be a temporary one most likely) is the new protection. That poor Swiss (or was he Swedish? Only read a single article about the guy ~2 years back) that cracked current DVDs is in lots of trouble and the new protection is supposed to be incredible (each frame has a different decode and each decode is much more complex that DVDs).

So, just like DVDs, we'll be buying them for 3-4 years before pirating will actually pick up on them. However, I hope I am wrong as I know I'll be buying the movies I already a) bought on DVD (this includes the Lord of the Rings box and every other expensive box sets

), and b) copied and spent alot of time encoding on DVD.

Posted by Redemption198 on 04-03-2005 11:35 PM:

I too cant wait, as the quality will be incredible, people i know think DVD is the best you can get, and dont want to invest again, but i have no problems with it.

I too will need a new TV, but things are slow in the UK for Next Gen TV's, but hoping that will change soon enough.

I bought all my Boxset movies on VHS (Indiana Jones, Bond, Star Wars, etc) and then again on DVD, and i will no doubt get them on Blue Ray or HD DVD, people think im mad for saying that, but the quality should be worth it, the HRHD TV rips ive got amaze me, so im very excited about the Next Step.

The Copy Protection sounds a toughy, but everything has been cracked so far, and i dont see this being any different.

Posted by JoshNya on 04-04-2005 04:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by cloudspear
that's the marketing in technolgy. introdution, growth, decline, then gone.

Actually the life cycle goes: Development, Introduction, Growth, Maturity, Decline.

But you were close. And yes DVDs are at Maturity, all down hill on its next step. Blu-Ray/HD-DVD are still in Development stages, so the Decline wont be untill Blu-Ray/HD-DVD reaches Growth.

Don't mess with da marketin man

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