VCDQuality Forums (http://www.vcdhq.com/forum/index.php)
- Movie, movies and more movies! (http://www.vcdhq.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=14)
-- **MATRIX SPOILER THREAD** Keep your spoilers here, please. (http://www.vcdhq.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=19618)

Official Matrix 2 *SPOILER* Thread

well it had to be done, after 10 mins of being home after i saw the movie, i have to discuss this rather extrodinary film with other people, and of course to clear up some confusion... first of all, that man on Niobe's craft was an agent correct? And also, what the fuck was the architecht saying in that crazy room with 6 other previous "The One's" and why is the oracle always wrong?! oh god, im sure this movie isnt as confusing as i think it is, but when that crazy old man was talking, i kinda zoned out, but other then that, what did you all think about the movie and did you guys stay for the Revolutions preview at the end? that movie looks like its gonna rock, and i think it will possibly be one of the top grossing movies EVER.. but yea, thats my thoughts on the movie, i thought it rocked, and give it a phat 10.5/10 ... you have to love the freeway scene

man i dont know what all the hype is about...anyways i went to see it on wednesday and i was really dissapointed. so many parts of the movie that were unecessary. i give the first matrix a 10/10 but reloaded a 5/10. it seemed like alot of the action was waaaay slower than matrix 1. in my opinion only 2 parts of the movie were good. i really hope that revolutions is alot better.

ok i really loved it (i have not even been back from the movie for 10 minutes yet)

i too have something i did not understand about it

if that old guy in the crazy room says there have been others but he/they destroyed them for whatever reasons then how come that other guy in the restaurant (you know the one that always cursed in french and fucked the pretty lady in pink) said he survived the other ones ?

how could that be if he too was a program why was he not destroyed ? unless he was not a program then what was he ?

bah ! i am going to see it again next tuesday anyway cause i feel i really missed the whole plot of the movie, but the action was really cool

__________________
"As far back as I can remember, I've always wanted to be a gangster." -- Henry Hill, Brooklyn, N.Y. 1955.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mercatorn
After viewing the movie i will spare you the plot and get to theory behind it. *lots of spoilers*




--
-





















--



The movie explains that the 'real world' (neo and zion citizens) are just part of the matrix, an outter matrix actually. The robots designed the matrix and the flaw in this program was 'the one' the one is a bug it is not a prophecy according to the architect. This bug was unable to be fixed after many versions, and so as a fail safe back up a second 'matrix' was formed, a matrix of the real world, not a matrix of the 20th century. This matrix was designed to make the humans believe they were actually free, that they had hope. But being part of the matrix and still inside, they actually have hope and freedom, as hinted by one of the council members talking to neo about the machines that support them (water recycler) and if they are truly free from the their control.

some points:
In the first matrix they said that the architect was able to free the first of 'us' from the matrix, a twisted fact.
a hint is at the end of the movie- neo is able to 'stop' the sentinels as if it were the matrix.

So the 'cycle' of having neos and finding false freedom false hope is part of the matrix program. This is the robot's clever way of keeping all doubt out of the human's mind that they are still not in a matrix.

Also as hinted by mr.smith the agent in the first movie he says that humans are unique they see reality when there is suffering and pain, etc etc and believe it is real by that suffering. This suffering was 'expanded' on in the false real world, so much suffering with only zion as the last hope for man kind makes it all so more real for them to believe.


however i cant connect how the connection between Agent smith and Neo being alike

---

Yes, even tho they think there out of the Matrix. They are still within the Matrix. It does get confusing. Was getting a headache while watching it.

Thanks for that paste Pezz, I so zoned out of the old mans incredibly long speech.
Reloaded kicks the originals ass in every way. I just wish carrie ann had showed us a little more in that love scene. b0ing!

hell naw man, in my opinion matrix one was alot better...and whats up with that gay ass rave seen in reloaded...hahahha that was lame.

I personally thought that the first was better. D:?

Didn't like this movie one bit....total waste of time...

The first movie was alot better than this one....

3/10

In my Opinion the movie kicked ass one thing I didn't like about it is that neo looked like he was moving to slow in some action scenes he was moving faster in the first one and that rave scene should of been cut looked pretty lame and its like 5mins long what the hell was up with that should of never made it on to the movie if you ask me. But overall the movie was great I give it 9/10 hope the next one is alot better.

__________________
hah- kids want violence- get them sick of it at a young age, then they won't be looking for it when they're older- providing them with panzy-ass kangaroos and other shit like that just makes them want to beat the shit outta the homos that make it..... well maybe the kids dont, - but i sure as hell do!
From {Kangaroo Jack - TELESYNC - ESOTERiC}

there's a preview of revolution at the end of it?? I didnt stay to watch the credits!

horrible sequel!

im sorry to say..but this sequel was horrible!....

first of all THE STORY........

too many characters to keep up with who is who and how they are connected to this and that!...and about the guy who made the matrix had 6 version of it!..>WTF< was that about!....and if he stopped who ever was trying to kill the matrix how come he cant just delete NEO!i dont know they just went off to another world with this movie!.....PROGRAMS AND CHOICES AND BACKDOORS!....WTF!!!!!!!

As far as NEO.........

superman of 2003...come on now!....all that flying junk! killed it!..and fighting Mr.smith over and over....i should say Smith is just like Neo......Neo couldnt kick his ass and with that fight scene in the kid yard!......killed it after too many smiths came!...that was gay!...i spit on that part!..they should've just done like 5mins of that!..not fucking 10mins!...of a guy that wont die!....


And for the ACTION.........

it was a bit slow..i agree!.and it looked like they were dancing!..i agree with that too!...the only best scene in that whole movie was the freeway scene because they only had to spend 20million to make the scene!..(thats whati heard)...and 2000 GM cars! to fuck up!.......and that whole slow motion 360 camera thing!...got old cause every movie is doing it now!.....


And Ohh my God The LOVE STORY......

please!....NEO is not god who saves lives!..hahahhaha!....he chose the girl over zion.....what a gay fag is he!.....ohhh i love trinity im going to save her instead of millions of people counting on NEO.....


OVERALL......

THIS MOVIE WAS A DISSAPPOINMENT!.....

sorry to offend any MATRIX FANS out there but you gotta stop thinking about the matrix and live the real world called EARTH....

thats my two cents.......

I thought the movie was excellent..I loved every moment of it. However..the 1st time I saw it I had some doubts and then when I went back and saw it a 2nd time it all began to make sense and I loved it!

For those who hated it I suggest you give it one more chance and really pay attention

__________________
"If somebody said to me, in twelve years you’ll be in a band with your brother and two carrot munching geezers who don’t like football, I would've said 'fuck off, I’m not joining the Bee Gees." -Noel Gallagher 2005

I haven’t seen the first one in a while, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Trinity knew in the first one that Neo wouldn’t die, because according to the prophecy, she was supposed to fall in love with the one. So if the prophecy isn't true, why is it that they fell in love anyway?

If u ask me reloaded was a disappointment. I think i no y others feel the same. WHen u look at the first matrix what was one of the coolest scenes. The lobby!!! Reloaded had no scenes like that everything was kung fu shit, which for me personal got boring after awhile. i wanted some amazing gun fight like the first

The reason why the anomality *neo* couldn't be deleted was mentioned. It was the sum of imperfect equation that couldn't be solved. This is why the matrix/zion has to be destroyed every 100 years or so. Too many humans start getting to close, the anomality starts spreading, the machines have to stop it.

The prophecy was set in motion so the one would complete his path. Neo couldn't die in the first one, because if he did, no one would be able to finish the path they needed to set in motion. Only the anomality could re-erase the matrix/zion, and this time around it's neo. The whole thing with the oracle telling trinity that she would fall in love with Neo is just part of the path they forced Neo to take.

The only thing that I can't grasp is agent's smith relation to all of this. He says they are connected, maybe part of that imperfect equation got embeded into smith.

After watching reloaded for the 3rd time, it would be shocking if they just decided to give neo powers outside of the matrix and everyone *including myself* is just reading too much into this.

However, from a recent interview about the new MMO matrix game coming out, it is supposed to take place after revolutions. Yet, you are in the matrix in the game. So maybe at the end of revoltuions, everyone in zion gets released to the real world. Or maybe everyone just dies and it starts another generation. Freaky stuff.

i thought the movie was excellent...

people not liking it... i suspected as much.. all kinds of douche bags lined up to see mindless violence.. and low and behold.. they were presented with a plotline to follow.. and it sent their brain into overload... "whats this thinking im doing.. not used to that"

the story... very very interesting twist into the world of the matrix.. and keeps you wondering.. and anticipating.. hows all this going to come to a halt.. you know.. it just lets you know.. that theres even more of a hell of a saga coming to conclude the battle..

the action... was mindblowing... i thought it was better choreographed than the first movie.. moves seemed smoother and less forced.....

as far as the rave scene.. i think its a crucial scene of the movie.. it gives you a feeling for what the soldiers are fighting to save.. the reason they suffer the way they do.. if you have nothing but a dreary life... why bother fighting.. whats worth saving?

as far as the other guy.. that said reloaded had no memorable scenes like the lobby scene from the first film..

are you insane?

each action scene of this movie was a monumental battle.. i think every second of action in this film will be remembered for many years to come...

this film will be able to get away with the "bullet time" because this movie CREATED bullet time.. all other films using technology similar to this are just copying ... the matrix was the first movie to introduce such stylish action.. and will allways be the best and most original

__________________

"Nothing says OBEY ME like a severed head on a fence post,"

Very good points napalmfuzz. I couldn't agree with you more the action was outrageously original, and thats what the watchowski bros. are all about.. being original , the fighting scenes were out of this world... The fighting scenes were slower because they were mor intricate there was more going on for you too see... more to take in , thats why they had to be slower.

If they moved as fast as the original movie You would'nt be able to tell what the fuck was going on... And anyway in the first movie neo doesn't even fight anyone hand to hand besides morpheus and the agent in the subway.

There are no battles that are hand to hand in the first movie that consist of more then one person fighting another...
In reloaded thats all you see, there is no 1 vs 1 fighting and thats what makes it so much better.


Just think of the time that went into making this movie compared to the first one... more fighting training, (6 months) more set work (they built thier own 2 mile freeway) And countless hours on just one fight scene (4 weeks 12 hours a day filming the one scene with 100 smith's)

The bullet time and 360 degree slow-mo was expanded greatly for this movie... The end of the freeway scene was outrageous
It just go's to show you what you should be expecting from the new movies like x-men 2, T3 , and the hulk... but I can guess you won't be seeing anything like that from those movie's because
The matrix trilogy's will make and break the rules for every other movie.


This movie was far better then the original, There was only 3 scenes in the first movie that even used any fighting...


This movie blows the first one out of the water...
The plot thickens (too bad for those people that hate plots)
And I'm sure the third installment will blow are mind as well.

Thanks wachowski bros.. For giving us a one of a kind trilogy
and I hope your great work doesn't stop here.

tool2heal and napalmfuzz I coudln't agree more with both of you.
Both of you have great points this matrix movie does have a great plot line as the first one did. This is what I think the problem is like napalmafuzz said alot of peoples heads where about to blow up during some of the scenes from trying to think so much.
To many big words for them I guess plot got a little hard to follow for their little brains. In my opinion this movie was great very deserving of the matrix name.
And your right napalmfuzz about that rave scene I did hate it but you make a good point of why they would add it I just wish it would of been a little shorter thats all . I will watch this movie again june 6 at the Imax so I can really enjoy all the great special affects

__________________
hah- kids want violence- get them sick of it at a young age, then they won't be looking for it when they're older- providing them with panzy-ass kangaroos and other shit like that just makes them want to beat the shit outta the homos that make it..... well maybe the kids dont, - but i sure as hell do!
From {Kangaroo Jack - TELESYNC - ESOTERiC}

Re: horrible sequel!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Justaren
im sorry to say..but this sequel was horrible!....

first of all THE STORY........

too many characters to keep up with who is who and how they are connected to this and that!...and about the guy who made the matrix had 6 version of it!..>WTF< was that about!....and if he stopped who ever was trying to kill the matrix how come he cant just delete NEO!i dont know they just went off to another world with this movie!.....PROGRAMS AND CHOICES AND BACKDOORS!....WTF!!!!!!!

As far as NEO.........

superman of 2003...come on now!....all that flying junk! killed it!..and fighting Mr.smith over and over....i should say Smith is just like Neo......Neo couldnt kick his ass and with that fight scene in the kid yard!......killed it after too many smiths came!...that was gay!...i spit on that part!..they should've just done like 5mins of that!..not fucking 10mins!...of a guy that wont die!....


And for the ACTION.........

it was a bit slow..i agree!.and it looked like they were dancing!..i agree with that too!...the only best scene in that whole movie was the freeway scene because they only had to spend 20million to make the scene!..(thats whati heard)...and 2000 GM cars! to fuck up!.......and that whole slow motion 360 camera thing!...got old cause every movie is doing it now!.....


And Ohh my God The LOVE STORY......

please!....NEO is not god who saves lives!..hahahhaha!....he chose the girl over zion.....what a gay fag is he!.....ohhh i love trinity im going to save her instead of millions of people counting on NEO.....


OVERALL......

THIS MOVIE WAS A DISSAPPOINMENT!.....

sorry to offend any MATRIX FANS out there but you gotta stop thinking about the matrix and live the real world called EARTH....

thats my two cents.......

---

__________________
RoLL That Shit
Smoke That Shit
Pass That Shit

I said it in another thread but I cant find it anymore :/

The plot to this movie was simple. I was expecting more from the plot to be honest. I knew before Neo even stopped the sentinels in the "real" world that he was still in the matrix, because agent smith as still walking in that infected dude from the ship that stayed behind to receive word from the oracle - if that was the real world the dude wouldnt be able to function... a program cant just go and start controling a humans bodily functions, it would be like trying to run a linux program on a Windows machine without any emulators - it just wouldnt work.

The first movie had my mind doing circles for ages, this movie had me upset, and angry at the shameless corporate sellout for the next revolutions movie.

What was explained in this movie?

1. Rogue programs hide in the Matrix.
2. Oracle was one such program.
3. The "real" world was infact just another part of the Matrix.
4. There has been 5 previous Matrix's before Neo, but hes different cos he chose love.


This film is certainly good, and the effects are amazing. BUT - for a true matrix fan, I have to say that you will probably be left feeling a bit dissatisfied with this film - but maybe that is the nature of this film - to pose more questions than answer, and to wrap everything up in the last movie in November.

A final point to speculate on that I would raise. Neo at the end is in some sort of coma.... funnily enough hes in just the same kind of state that any of the characters in the matrix are like when they jack into "the matrix". My suggestion is that maybe he has actually left the matrix all together - kind of like how that kid in one of the animatrix episodes free's himself from the main matrix into what was deemed the "real world" - but we know different now.

Anyone care to comment on that?

__________________
[3:57am] <@mystic-s> every person in the usa is gay and loves men. they also like putting bicycles up their bottom <--- hehehehe

i dont think the plot was weak for this film.. i think the story is a little more subtle than in your face.. and you have to pay attention to really catch what the directors wanted to do with this movie..
and it is really about more questions than answers... sorta like empire strikes back.. it ends on a down note and leaves everyone wondering.. wtf..

and im not quite sure what youre talking about.. corporate sellout.. because the directors had planned on making a trilogy before the first penstroke of the script was taken

__________________

"Nothing says OBEY ME like a severed head on a fence post,"

Something i found on the imdb board. I didnt write it, just spreading the message:

*************************************************
While I agree with many here that questions remain unanswered, such as "is Zion another matrix", I don't think that detracts from the main point this episode was trying to make. For that reason I will refer to the Zion world as "real" in quotes. This episode is about how Love between human and machine will bring an end to the war. Just not the end that everyone thinks!

It is mentioned several times that the question is one of "purpose". That is, what is Neo's purpose in being the one? Is it to save humankind? Yes. Is it to save Machinekind? YES!

I believe Neo is an AI program created by the Architect, as is the Keymaker, Oracle, Persephone, etc. This is basically a given, when the Architect tells him he is a remainder of the equation; the only AI character with a choice. He is put into a human body, and therefore is a human "born in the matrix". This happens in the first movie. Morpheus and Trinity are "real" and have had information about Neo given to them by the Oracle program. Of course, the reason the oracle is able to "predict" things about Neo, is because she and Neo are both made by the Architect. Notice the predictions she makes for Morpheus and Trinity are both things that are under the Architect's control (that Morpheus will find him, and Trinity will fall in love with him). Trinity falling in love with Neo is CRITICAL to the Architect's plan. If she does not, he will let Neo die and generate another "One", as he has failed at his goal of producing an AI that can be loved.

At the end of the first movie, when Trinity proves her love for Neo, he is resurrected and half the equation is complete. At the end of Reloaded, when Neo proves his love for Trinity, she is resurrected. She resurrected him from her world (the "real" world), he did it from his world (the Matrix). Now, both sides of the equation are complete; mutual love between human and AI. This is the REVOLUTION that will save both humans and Machines. Why is love so important?

The Architect believes a part of his own prophesy (that Neo will save humanity), and describes this to Neo in the end. All past Neos had chosen the scientific/rational door or rebooting the matrix and trying again, this is a very "mechanical" response; it is not an irrational HUMAN response. Trying again means the scenario will be played out again - BUT FOR WHAT PURPOSE? The Architect's purpose is to develop an AI that can love and be loved. It is reasonable to think that this is the last element that machines/AI have not been able to reproduce. This is backed up by the fact that there is obviously no love from the Machines, or their Agent counterparts in the matrix. Even the other Matrix AI characters are not capable of true love. Merovingian "writes code" to produce lust in the woman with the cake, but is incapable of forcing love as an equation. Love requires free will.

This is why the Persephone scene is so relevant to the "purpose". She is EXTREMELY interested in seeing if there is true love between Neo and Trinity. She is part of the test that the Architect is giving Neo. By passing this test, he is given the Keymaker (of course not without some requisite action scenes). The second test that he passes is when he chooses the OTHER door. The architect has set up this door, so that if Neo does truly love Trinity, he has accomplished his goal and does not need to reboot the matrix. He mentions that no past "Ones" have had such a strong attachment to a single person. Now the Architect is sure that he has finally created love, he is willing to risk it all on this bet of his. He is hoping that since machines/AI can love, this will ultimately bring an end to war. Now that love between Trinity (Human) and Neo(Machine/AI) has happened for the first time, it will start a revolution whereby Machines and Humans can begin to live in harmony. This is foreshadowed by the Councilman who takes Neo down to the engine room. He basically says that at this point, humans and machines cannot live without one another (so ultimate human victory is out of the question). The architect also says that the Machines are willing to take the risk if neo does chose the non-reloading door. This indicates that the powers that be in the machine world control, or at least agree with what the Architect is doing. Possibly the machines don't absolutely control the matrix, even though they built it?

In the interest of wrapping up, I will not go into detail on Agent Smith, but I believe he represents a different mindset within the machines. The architect feels that the way to proceed is to bring the humans and machines together. The humans and machines want to eradicate each other. Agent Smith has actually made a bigger transformation than Neo. He has gone from a machine with a rogue agenda, into the matrix, stolen free will and transport into the human mind from Neo's program, and is now in the Zion world. He is a mirror to Neo, both opposite and similar. He is a machine that has acquired free will and ability to take human form. Neo is also AI, but sees things from the Human perspective. Smith has free will and Hate, Neo has free will and Love. The Humans really don't seem to have much to do in the movies at all except be sort of a Turing test for the Architect. Without non-human Neo, they pretty much get wasted by the Machines every time. The architect's speech backs this up. The first two movies showed the successful development of a human mind born in the Matrix. The final movie will be the test of this new AI based humanity against the machine mindset. Kind of a trial by fire of the Architect's theory that Love is the answer.

The final war is not necessarily between humans and machines, but rather between the ideals of free will or not. Smith, although he has free will has made his power in the matrix one of replication. Exact copies. Very machine like. Neo is a machine intelligence modeled after humans, and has passed the ultimate human test of love. Seems like a good part of the machine world is on the side of the Architect, and that Smith and his replicants are the rogues now. The ultimate downfall of Smith will be his newly found humanity, proving to all the machines that free will and love will win in the end.

hahah i forgot who said it, but yeah the fighting scenes do look like they're dancing. especially that gay part before he went to see the oracle...that fight scene was really slow and lame. and we already kno wthat new and trinity are in love, but that doesnt mean they gotta waste 10 minutes on a dumb ass rave scene. i pretty much only liked 2 scenes. the highway and the part where he fucked up all the agents in the parking lot or whatever, but even in that scene some of it was stupid. hahaha they had to do bullet time for like every scene which imo is kinda dumb. the matrix1 seemed like the action was faster, i mean after all neo is supposed to be fast right? i guess he lost some of his power cause he is slow as fuck now. anyways, maybe its because i had TOO HIGH EXPECTATIONS..but its just my opinion. i think revolutions will be better.

Can anyone tell me who the guy is at the very end of the movie. Is it the guy who cut his hand earlier, if so who is he?
Also, does that mean Zion is totally wiped out with him being the only survivor?

The guy they show at the end *bane* is agent smith in a human body. If you noticed the part right after they turned off the lights in Zion, two guys are running from smith and one of them gets caught and copied. That agent smith uses the hardline and goes to zion. He cuts his hand later because agent smith wanted to see if he was real, and if he could bleed.

Oh, and Zion hasn't been reached yet. Bane/Smith was the only one left of the ships that got destroyed.

quote:

---

Originally posted by slaz
I said it in another thread but I cant find it anymore :/

The plot to this movie was simple. I was expecting more from the plot to be honest. I knew before Neo even stopped the sentinels in the "real" world that he was still in the matrix, because agent smith as still walking in that infected dude from the ship that stayed behind to receive word from the oracle - if that was the real world the dude wouldnt be able to function... a program cant just go and start controling a humans bodily functions, it would be like trying to run a linux program on a Windows machine without any emulators - it just wouldnt work.

The first movie had my mind doing circles for ages, this movie had me upset, and angry at the shameless corporate sellout for the next revolutions movie.

What was explained in this movie?

1. Rogue programs hide in the Matrix.
2. Oracle was one such program.
3. The "real" world was infact just another part of the Matrix.
4. There has been 5 previous Matrix's before Neo, but hes different cos he chose love.


This film is certainly good, and the effects are amazing. BUT - for a true matrix fan, I have to say that you will probably be left feeling a bit dissatisfied with this film - but maybe that is the nature of this film - to pose more questions than answer, and to wrap everything up in the last movie in November.

A final point to speculate on that I would raise. Neo at the end is in some sort of coma.... funnily enough hes in just the same kind of state that any of the characters in the matrix are like when they jack into "the matrix". My suggestion is that maybe he has actually left the matrix all together - kind of like how that kid in one of the animatrix episodes free's himself from the main matrix into what was deemed the "real world" - but we know different now.

Anyone care to comment on that?

---

Re: horrible sequel!

I kind of wish the film had not opened with the full Trinity fight scene. It would've been better if they only showed the portion where she is shot and then Neo wakes up. Then to see the complete fight sequence later on in the film would've kicked a$$!

I don't know about you... but when I see a couple in love... I expect a wider range of emotions to be shared between the two characters than what we are getting from Neo and Trinity. Although, I think Keanu is making a stonger attempt than Carrie. She just isn't convincing enough. Trinity is so deadpan. She's not putting enough into it. That's the only reason I roll my eyes at their relationship. If there was more chemistry between them I'd be more accepting of the lovey-dovey-mushy stuff (ie. making out in the elevator).

The African rave thing was fucking ridiculous. And too damn long. It was just wrong.

And was Zion a disappointment for anyone else? I was expecting something completely different.

Did anyone else find Link (the guy with the dreads) kinda dopey compared to the Nebuchadnezzar crew members from the 1st film?

That Commander Lock guy looked constipated. He was in constant pissed-off/cry-baby mode. The degree to which he was upset was laughable.

After Neo fights the hundred Agent Smiths, where was the blood? C'mon man. And then he spills one drop later on fighting less formidable opponents. Without blood and bruising it doesn't feel like anyone's getting hurt. What's a fight without pain? And the difference between the fight scenes in the first film and this one is that these sequences all looked computer animated ala CG Neo.

Everyone in the theater laughed when the snobby dude Merovingian said swearing in French was like "Wiping your ass with silk."

Can someone explain to me what happened to the woman who ate the cake? Did she have an orgasm? Did she have to pee? What?

Oh my god. That Monica Belluci is just luscious. I could just gobble her up.

What was all that stuff The Oracle said about Ghosts, Angels, Vampires, Werewolves, and Aliens? She had an explanation but I didn't catch it. I thought the Oracle said this was a sign that a program was doing something it wasn't supposed to be doing and Neo said "programs hacking other programs." ???

As soon as I saw the Twins powers I thought of Nightcrawler from X-Men 2. And after the freeway scene (which was very cool) I thought... Nightcrawler's assasination attempt on the President kicked more ass.

I DID like that freeway scene. Especially when Trinity goes into oncoming traffic on the motorcycle.

Niobe had like one fight scene that lasted 3 seconds. That Jada Pinkett is one hell of an actress ain't she? Not.

The Architect blew my mind. I'm going to have to watch the movie 3 more times just to figure out all the shit he said. I mean that business about 5 other Neos trying and failing... I thought what is this? Groundhog Day?

At the end Neo is able to stop the Sentinels out of The Matrix. What does this mean? That the real world is not real? That they've been in the Matrix all along without realizing it?

I coulda sworn that last year I heard Jet Li was supposed to be in this film. Around the same time the news that Aaliyah was cast to be in the film. In the trailers I thought Seraph (the Oracle's bodyguard) was Jet Li. But it turns out he's not. Does anyone else recall the same rumour?

Minor complaints aside, I still liked this film and can't wait for Revolutions!

first of all..if you cant tell the difference in having an orgasm. and having to pee.. theres something wrong somewhere.. someone needs to have a talk with you...

i dont care what people think of the movie.. its their opinion.. i liked it alot.. and so far.. every reason anyones given for the reasons that this film wasnt very good.. are not only arguable.. but completely invalid... i dont understand why people dont see the importance of the zion scenes.. the love scenes.. the rave scenes.. its to show these peoples hope.. and what they live for.. the reason their fighting..whats so hard to understand and accept this as a plotline...

__________________

"Nothing says OBEY ME like a severed head on a fence post,"

Matrix Spoiler -- Read Inside

Here's my take on the story. Zion is real, Neo is a Trojan Horse planted by the machines so all of Zion won't be destroyed. Why not destory Zion completely? An enemy you know is a lot less dangerous than an enemy you don't know.

The machines let Zion exist so that every human that manage to escape The Matrix will eventually end up there. Every once in a while you send in an army to clean house but you don't destroy everything. Leave enough so that new escapees can build another Zion, when it gets too big you destroy it again.

I think Neo is some combination of man-machine just like the Zion man that Agent Smith infected is. That explains why he has so much power inside The Matrix and how he can control the machines even outside The Matrix. The humans of Zion has to think that he's a human anointed by some "god" in order to accept him as one of them.

I think the machines know exactly what will happen with the Neo/Zion vs. Machines war but I think that Agent Smith is an unexplained virus that might just throw a wrench into the whole machines plan.

Crazy, yes, but I always get crazy ideas like these when I read a good sci-fi book.

Copied from Box Office Mojo.

Let analyse The Matrix.

__________________
DragonWar

So have a talk with me then. I can tell the difference between an orgasm and peeing just fine. The scene was not done as well as it could have been. It wasn't like she was cumming all over the place like Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally (and Meg was faking). The CG animation of her vagina could've been her bladder exploding for all I know. Did she moan even once? No. Did she look delighted with orgasmic pleasure? No. Did she look embarassed, stand up and leave the table like she crapped her pants? YES.

Yeah, that's all good. I understand the importance of all the stuff mentioned. Again, it's HOW they were done. Zion could've been better. The love scenes could've been better. The rave scene could've been better. Show peoples hope? Fine. Show what they live for? Fine. Show what they're fighting for? Fine. It's easy to understand and accept all that and the plotline. But I don't have to accept the film as a masterpiece if it isn't. If I think they could've done ALL OF IT... better, that's my opinion.

Why can't people read previous posts in a thread before posting?

Thanks for that paste, [Pb]. It was an interesting read and certainly clued me in to several little things I missed in the theater. And now I can see the significance of the progression from "Reloaded" to "Revolutions". I'll definitely have to watch M2 a couple more times to get this all to congeal in my head.

FuZZ, aside from the people who only wanted to see the Matrix for the action scenes, the reason folks are having problems with the "complicated" plot in this movie is that these are the same idiots who thought they were so smart by gleaning little tidbits of pop psychology from the first movie.

It was such a treat for most people who don't think too much to be handed an interesting concept on a silver platter in the first movie -- all they had to do was think "What if I live in a Matrix?" and suddenly they felt like geniuses because the media was hyping the "makes-you-think" aspect of the movie.

Now all of a sudden these same folks find themselves unable (or simply unwilling) to discover the deeper thematic motifs and symbols of Matrix 2. They whine, "Bad Matrix Reloaded! You were supposed to hand us more pearls of wisdom through which we can feel intelligent without actually having to do any thinking!" They've never paid enough attention in literature classes in school to understand how to think critically about a plotline, and now they either (a) truly don't see the rich literary structure being developed, or (b) see that some such structure is there but are pissed off that they don't follow it.

I must confess that I was in group (b) for a while after seeing the movie until reading some helpful posts such as that one pasted from IMDB. I think it's because I missed a couple key things in the movie, like the fact that that Bane guy had been infected. The whole movie I thought he was just a bastard in league with the Agents like Pantoliano in the first movie. So I missed the whole Smith half of the AI-nee-human/human-nee-AI dichotomy.

I look forward to some more in-depth discussion of the movie after I watch it a few more times and once the #vcdq ban on M2 comments is lifted.

[edit] I certainly do agree that parts of the movie already mentioned were done poorly. The rave scene almost made me feel like I'd rather be living with the machines! But I suppose that was also a plot point ... because I presume that Neo's conversation with the Councillor took place while the rave was still going on. They went to the machine room -- away from the carnal humanity of the rave -- and then commented on how "pleasant an evening it was". Hmm ... yeah, now that I think about it, I guess that probly was the point of the rave scene -- to go way overboard on the "humanity" side of things and show that a balance between machine and man is the optimal goal. What do you think, Pra3t0? [/edit]

Below I offer what a group of us has put together by actually mapping out the events and making a glossary of individuals and what they actually said – to possibly offer a bit more of an explanation to the path that this movie offered: I am not sure if to many people truly understand what this movie is actually saying, so I will try to explain it for those that don't get what they just saw… The first thing I recommend is that you try to remove your ego, people all have them - so they believe that the movie must be about people. But actually it is about software and mainframe code.

The main computer has been caught in a loop cycle for 5 iterations, and it is trying to find a variance that will break this cycle by utilizing a random bit anomaly piece of software (Neo), to allow it to fully complete its cycle. It has tried this before, but has always failed in its attempts. It is trying to factor in all variables of its program to make absolute sure of complete success before it attempts to actually implement the complete procedure, like a good piece of software (debugging iteself - "it is the "why" that is important"). Beta software waiting to go gold. … The only factor that was not counted in was an anomaly of two programs intersecting, and one becoming a self-replicating virus bent on absolute destruction (Smith), and the anomoly (Neo) complementing his program with protectorate software. …

This is a brilliant movie, that once you wrap your head around, its really just an ultimate version of Tron with no human watchers (Jeff Bridges), of a computer SuperNoc running through a simulation with all possible factors being worked first, before it initializes the program for real…

If Neo completes his role and meets his ultimate purpose as software, then our hero allows the computer to see all variances that it will need to contend with, so that it can fully implement the real program on our world…

Matrix - main base operating system…

Zion - secondary operating system for software that can no longer function in the main sytem - but can be utilized to build a new matrix system…

Neo - Random bit anomaly software for breaking loop cycle – utilized by the Oracle and Architect software to be a random variable to upgrade itself – upgraded with protectorate code from Smith (Anti-Virus)…

Trinity - complement software to aid in Neo's completion of purpose…

Morpheus and Crew - collector programs for mainframe to try to enable the end of the loop cycle…

Architect - Mainframe operating system…

Oracle - old Macro Software that has been part of all 5 iterations of the loop and can see all variances…

Oracle's Protector - Mainframe hard code software…

Merovingian - old Neo that did not fully implement objective in beta 5.0…

Merovingian's Wife - old trinity code…

Twins, and Merovingian's Guards - old base black ice protector code…

Head Counselor in Zion - Advisor for Mainframe that advises Neo along with his upgrade to not touch the main bios (engineering) systems…

Key Maker - come on now, to easy, a simple keygen…

Smith - self-replicating virus - now capable of moving to either system – infused with anomaly code from Neo…

Cool ... I just had an interesting thought (doesn't happen often), and I wanted to know what y'all think ...

In the Animatrix there's that kid who "frees himself" from the Matrix -- he's the annoying kid who hangs around Neo like a barnacle in Reloaded. Now, remember in the Animatrix, either Trinity or Neo remarks that they never thought "self-actualization/realization/whatever they called it" was possible. That is, they'd never heard of anybody before who woke himself up out of the Matrix.

Now that we suddenly see that there's an "outer Matrix", perhaps this kid's talent will come in handy. Maybe he could help everyone in Zion to "wake up" from the outer Matrix.

We don't know exactly what happened to Neo at the end of Reloaded, but presumably he is "awake" in the REAL real world (if there is such a thing), and so you might posit that Neo, not the kid, would be the one to come back into the outer Matrix and teach everyone how to really wake up. But I'm not sure that he woke himself up from the outer Matrix at the end of the movie -- that is, I'm not sure he would be able to repeat the process at will. That's why I think the kid might come in handy.

Of course, it might also be the case that all you have to do to wake up from the outer Matrix is become aware of its existence, as Neo does at the end. In which case, he would just need to tell Zion the truth (if there is such a thing), and suddenly they'd all be free (if there is such a state).

Ok, that's my thought.

hmm Ive got 3 thoughts on explanations.

1. There are no more robots left in the REAL real world and all the matrixes are just being run by programs. Maybe there are some automated machine in the REAL real world that makes new humans.

2. There are no more humans and machines left in the REAL real world and everything in all the matrixes are just programs.

3. The matrixes are some kind of experiment by humans, the machines never took over the world and what not.

I found this script of the Architect's conversation with Neo on IMDb, where it was reposted from somewhere else. I hope it helps some of you as you rethink the movie.

#####
The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Others? What others? How many? Answer me!'*

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bull****.*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: You can't control me! **** you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull****.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Bull****!*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we?

Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason.

An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

quote:

---

Did anyone else find Link (the guy with the dreads) kinda dopey compared to the Nebuchadnezzar crew members from the 1st film?

---

__________________

Loving God.... Vengeful God...

Just grabbed the CTP Reloaded release and watched it again, to see if I missed out on anything at the theater.

If you recall in The Matrix while Agent Smith is interrogating Morpheus, he takes out his earpiece. Shortly, Neo and Trinity have their little lobby spree and make their way up to the rooftop. Then Agents Brown and Jones walk in on Smith sans earpiece.

Agent Jones: What were you doing?
Agent Brown: He doesn't know.
Agent Smith: Know what? (Puts earpiece back in.)

Now everyone seems to be arguing that Smith simply couldn't transfer himself into someone else. If you recall, when the agents were interrogating Morpheus, Tank showed Neo how his alpha-pattern would be changed from a very dynamic pulse to a static one. Thus a cracked mind is in fact taken over by the machines. Smith can do this at his own will now, hence his ability to have been transferred into Bane and be subsequently unplugged back to the "real" world. Training sims, weapons, clothing, etc. are loaded via the construct into the mind and into the matrix. What's to stop this from being a two-way street? If the avatar dies, the host dies. If the avatar is infected, the host... is infected. Only Smith and Smith himself is capable of this, because of his interaction with Neo. Somehow, his clones cannot because they are merely in host bodies. Think of SafeDisc protection on CD's; a sole part of a program which cannot be replicated absolutely.

Jump to the beginning of Reloaded. Smith knows exactly where to find Neo and as a symbol of his enhanced reformation, bequeaths to him his earpiece, which he no longer needs thanks to the 'infection' passed on from Neo at the end of The Matrix. But this is the "real" world, no? Of course it's not, because Neo proves this near the end when he "feels" the machines and is able to stop them.

Neo: Something's different.
Trinity: What?
Neo: I can feel them.

Hmm. Just like a 'glitch' (deja-vu) in the original matrix when something was changed. He even knows the squiddies are sending in a bomb, but normally they are search and destory. Neo saves the day and passes out. We see a small council discussing the fact that 'someone screwed up' and an EMP device was triggered. The sole survivor of that set-up being Bane/Smith. He shows no physical sign of harm yet is in the same kind of coma as Neo -- as a result of the EMP (or his own powers in Zion, like Neo's) perhaps? I find it suspicious that Neo's disabling of the fast-approaching squiddies resembles an EMP blast, rendering him comatose just as Bane/Smith's EMP trigger left him. Since Neo's integration with Smith, he is more machine-esque or is at least subconsciously aware that he is more than just human. Consequently he is mildly affected by this 'mental EMP' and slips into a coma. EMP's simply temporarily disable electrical circuitry, it doesn't necessarily make if non-functional indefinitely. I believe Neo is in limbo between the inner-matrix (Zion) and the real world, or else he is in the real world itself.

I also believe the 'systemic anomaly' that The Architect speaks of is the machines' version of human AI (Neo) and its ability to make a dynamic choice. Where the previous AI chose humanity, (Zion) they failed as a perfect AI because that was the path it was predicated to take; it didn't learn. Since its choice is pre-determined, it knows that if it chooses to re-enter the source, Zion will start over with 23 people and the matrix will survive; of course to preserve the machines which depend on the bioelectricity. AI also 'knew' that if it chose the other door, it would hail destruction, all humans would die and the machines would be forced to survive by whatever 'other means' it was that The Architect spoke of. Evolution kicks in during generation-six and AI has finally learned to love, because it has decided to choose on its own instead of the following the pre-determined 'choices' set before it. This is apparent as Neo is with The Architect with the mass of screens behind him, each one representing a unique response to conversational exchange with The Architect.

Okay, the Bros. did a major Jedi mind-fuck on me. I'll admit to that much.

*Dons an asbestos suit*

Flaaaame onnn!

I have read everything you guys wrote, and i must say, some interisting remarks in here, i definetely gonna see the movie again, because i liked it, i understand some dudes are disappointed in the movie, but i thing the reason for that is all the fucking hype,...i always go to a movie with the thought , this movie gonna suck...
and then you CAN have the chance and the luck or not, that it turns out a better way,
anyway the action scenes were cool, i missed the guns i admit,
the rave scene, was nice, but i hated the long speech before it from morpheus, i turned my head in shame, because i thought he was making a fool out of himself, anyway the end of the speech and the shouthing made it good,
for the rest , nice story, i like the thought they are in a backupmatrix,, but i dotn like the idea that neo is also a program...
the trinity love scene was a bit stupid, and i dont remember that guy who followed neo always in zion
overall score, definitely a 9

the movie is great, I would give it a 9.5. I always go into movies as I go into doing anything else. Hope for the best and expect the worst.

i was thinking there are 2 matrix's to and the prophcy(cant spell) is accually right about the matrix that they are in when they are in there ship and in zion so its not the prediction for the matrix that neo can fly in

anyone else notice that neo looks computerized during the fight witht he smiths?

__________________
Jesus fucking christ my sig was huge so Dwaggy replaced it with this message

got this from us.imdb.com searched for matrix 3 then i read the plot thing and it said view trailer i clicked it then under reloaded dowloaded the jap trailer and had maybe 5 clips from revoultions i guess or just clips that were cut i think they are from revolutions

__________________
Jesus fucking christ my sig was huge so Dwaggy replaced it with this message

I think that scene was just cut out.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cyberspaz
Since Neo's integration with Smith, he is more machine-esque or is at least subconsciously aware that he is more than just human.

---

i agree with what [pb] found at idmb about neo being a program in a human host it all makes sense and something in the trailer backs up this theory, when neo and smith face off in the trailer morpheus says "he fights for us" and the way niobe says "neo" implys she is suprised to see him. this theory also explains how smith is able to be in the real world. smith could also be in a coma like neo because he did exactly the same thing stopping the sentinals in the same way neo did after he had set off the emp thus giving smith the chance to kill neo in the real world where neos powers are not the same as in the matrix

The trailer for Revolutions makes me think that Neo and Smith are going to do battle on another "plane" of existence ... outside the "outer" Matrix, perhaps. The reason I think this battle takes place outside either of the two Matrices that we've seen so far is that ... it's raining. We have very rarely seen rain in the Matrix. But Neo and Smith face off on a long road that doesn't really seem to be part of a city, and it's *pouring*.

I can think of a lot of reasons why they might get into such a confrontation (even though I'm convinced that they'll have to end up on the same side in order for the plot to come to a conclusion), but I'm more interested to think about the repercussions of rainfall *outside* of the Matrices. Does it mean that there is yet another Matrix outside the two we've seen so far? Or does it mean that rain still falls in the real world? Does this mean that the atmosphere was never destroyed in the real world as we were all previously told?

"What about you?"
"I just havent been able to... Sleep much."
"Thats a good sign."
"Of what?"
"That your infact still human"

Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

i believe that someone will die in revolutions...probably neo, trinity, or morphous...

dont you think?



the ending of revolutions can't be like, okay neo saved the day and no one dies.............there gots to be a twist at the end of the last movie....

__________________

" Politics is war without bloodshed, while war is politics with bloodshed. "

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omego2K
I think that scene was just cut out.

---

I feel bad, I'm not going to read all that, but I have to say it, just in case.. When Smith started infecting Neo, what if some of his code, went into Neo, like Neo's going into Smith. I don't know, just a thought. I loved the movie, and the rave sucked. Thanks for all the good stuff I did read, I'm sure I'll get to it all tommarrow morning. Can't wait to see it again.

-David

quote:

---

Originally posted by filetfish
"What about you?"
"I just havent been able to... Sleep much."
"Thats a good sign."
"Of what?"
"That your infact still human"

Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

---

The movie has so many metaphors and symbolisms.
one of them was the ending of the reloaded when they show neo and bane(smith) right next to each other. symbolizing yin and yang.

quote:

---

Originally posted by slaz
A final point to speculate on that I would raise. Neo at the end is in some sort of coma.... funnily enough hes in just the same kind of state that any of the characters in the matrix are like when they jack into "the matrix". My suggestion is that maybe he has actually left the matrix all together - kind of like how that kid in one of the animatrix episodes free's himself from the main matrix into what was deemed the "real world" - but we know different now.

Anyone care to comment on that?

---

Matrix Reloaded, explained in depth ...

Well, it's been a while since anything new was added to this conversation, but I came across the following excellent analysis of the movie that some of you may already have seen floating around the net. The original text was very nicely done, but I have edited it [in brackets] in a couple places where I had some difficulty following the logic to hopefully make it a little easier to follow.

In my opinion, this analysis goes a long way towards helping me solidify my understanding of the movie, accept some theories that I was marginally believing before, and even reject some theories that I had quite vehemently supported over the past couple months. I don't necessarily agree with the writer's predictions for Revolutions nor with some of the numerology he gets into, but as a whole, I highly encourage you all to read through it and add your own comments.

:: I had to divide it into two posts due to length ::

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The Matrix Reloaded - Explained...

Zion is a program, just like the Matrix. How is Neo able to figure out that he is able to stop the sentinels in Zion near the end of the film? The spoon given to him earlier. It had obviously been bent loads, but how outside the Matrix?? This gave Neo the inspiration and the understanding that Zion is still a matrix.

The One explained

"The One" is a program, but has to be "attached" to someone in the Matrix. So Mr. Anderson got it in the 6th version of the Matrix. Then "The One" program's purpose is to allow Zion to be destroyed then to rebuild it. The reason for this is because of anomalies - the 1% of humans that don't accept the Matrix. These are all brought out of the Matrix program and into the Zion program by the "Morpheus" program and other similar "ship captain" programs. Then once all the anomalies are out of the Matrix (and in Zion), that is the time for Zion to be destroyed, thus killing all the anomalies off. The Matrix is then upgraded, thus creating the next version of the Matrix, but Zion must be rebuilt so that the next lot of anomalies can be brought out again so that they can be destroyed. This is the feedback-loop, and is the reason to retain a handful of people so that Zion can be rebuilt. So this is why Neo said the prophecy was a lie - the One's purpose was not to end the war as the prophecy stated. Unfortunately, "The One" program must be re-used each time, or copied, so it can be "attached" to a new anomaly inside the Matrix. So what happens to the old "The One" program? It faces deletion, and as the Oracle explained, it goes into exile instead, just like the French bloke (the Merovingian) did. He was the first One (probably from the second version of the Matrix), and once he fulfilled his duty, he became an exile program and "abdicated" his "Oneness" by choosing Persephone and power. This is evident in the bogs when Persephone asks Neo to kiss her. She says she wants him to kiss her so she can feel what it is like again to be kissed by something close to human, just like the Merovingian used to be. Then she says to Trinity that she envies her, but that these things are not meant to last.

So the Merovingian used to be just like Neo - a One - thus proving further the feedback-loop explained earlier.

The correct door in the Architect's room

Now there are two possibilities here:

1. All the previous One's chose the right door allowing a "temporary dissemination" of their code into the Matrix (i.e., the code they "carry" thus indicating Neo is indeed human), then he must select (unplug) 23 people from the Matrix [i.e. not from Zion] to rebuild Zion. This takes away the possibility that stories from previous rebuilds of Zion will be carried through. But Morpheus indicated in the first Matrix that this [rebuilding process] is the case anyway. He said, "there was a man born inside, able to change things, it was he who freed the first of us," - basically the One previous to Neo. And this proves that the previous One chose the right door also. Neo's purpose is also to choose the right door, but he does not because he faces deletion afterwards and [sees that he] has the choice of going into exile - programs choosing to go into exile is the one thing that can't be accounted for in program parameters. Thus, he chooses the left door instead this time. How was Neo able to choose the other door? Because of his extreme willpower? - Even the Architect indicated that he'd noticed this -

"Interesting. That was quicker than the others."

Or more likely, because the Oracle upgraded his coding with the candy on the park bench. The candy/cookie was a method to change the One's program. She said he has made a believer out of her - this is quite human-like and perhaps the previous One's didn't accept the upgrade candy, now she has hope... hope that Neo will finally choose the other door.

2. All the previous One's chose the left door, saving Trinity and letting Zion fall. So this time is no different. But the Architect does say, "You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated," and also, "this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it," - assuming the Architect isn't lying, then they have already destroyed Zion (i.e., Zion has fallen) five times - i.e., the result of going through the left door.

Morpheus and Trinity are programs.

Morpheus's purpose was to find the One and deliver him to the Architect.

Trinity's purpose is to control the One by getting in love with him. Trinity is supposed to be the mother of the new One every time the Matrix is Reloaded. That's why the sex scene was so important and why she was named Trinity. The Architect says, "she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it." He was correct though because she did die just like Neo did in the first Matrix (Oracle said he or Morpheus would, and she didn't lie, but he came back to life).

Trinity dies, but comes back to life (we are using medical definition of death in all this of course!). The Architect has already laid down an ultimatum for Neo choosing the left door:

The Architect - "Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race."

Neo - "You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive."

The Architect - "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world."

Looking at this further, the Architect does say "coupled with the extermination of Zion" will the human race be exterminated. So he says everyone connected to the Matrix will die, but if Zion is not exterminated, the human race will not necessarily die. Also, there is likely to be a time-window between not going through the right door, and the cataclysmic crash, thus allowing Neo to unplug as many as possible from the Matrix, then those people won't die. This will be the start of the next Zion. As for the Matrix, a cataclysmic crash doesn't mean the end of the Matrix - just needs rebooting or reloading!

Agent Smith explained

Agent Smith is the only "human" in this world. He's the one spreading himself like a virus replicating himself over and over until the Matrix will finally get overloaded and fail. Smith is the one who wants to get out of the Matrix for good. He said so in the first Matrix, "I must get out of here, I must get free! And in this mind, is the key," squeezing Morpheus's temples, "my key! Once Zion is destroyed, there is no need for me to be here!" Smith knows that by killing Neo he can escape the Matrix because Neo is the key to resetting the Matrix, or to shut it off.

It was originally killing Neo (in the first Matrix) that allowed Smith to become powerful (cloning ability) - so killing Neo again will allow him to gain Neo's powers completely, and thus gain the power to shut down the Matrix. So where the hell did Smith come from if he wants to destroy the Matrix? He's obviously not meant to be there - he's a computer virus as he has every characteristic of a virus - he multiplies and spreads and infects (and emulates) other programs like one. He is exactly as he described humans at the end of the first Matrix - "You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus." But who put him there? This will only be revealed in Revolutions (Revelations?) I guess - but I'm betting on humans in the real real world, i.e., outside of Zion and the Matrix. They're at war with the machines and trying to destroy them by infecting them with this virus - Agent Smith. So the irony with this theory is that Agent Smith represents the human race!! Neo represents the machines! Agent Smith says to Neo just after he's seen the Oracle that he became free when Neo destroyed him in the first Matrix (remember when Neo entered his body and exploded him from inside out) - as a virus, Smith has the ability to "inherit" other programs' abilities and thus inherited some of Neo's.

(continued below ...)

__________________


Scrobble all you want, we'll make more!

Matrix Reloaded, explained in depth, continued ...

The anomaly explained

The anomaly is all the humans that do not accept the Matrix. The Architect says "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control." This includes Neo, but Neo's Matrix avatar is attached with the One program so that he can follow his purpose as explained earlier under "The One explained". However, he is also supposed to protect himself and destroy anything that gets in his way - i.e., Agent Smith - so that he may fulfill his purpose. Further proving Neo - and other non-accepters of the Matrix - are the anomaly, the Architect says, "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix." The clue here is Neo's program name - "The One". Take one-third for example. 1 over 3 is 0.33333 recurring. A computer cannot deal with recurring numbers, so must accept a limit, let's say 0.33333 for argument's sake. Multiply by 3, you get 0.99999 - never 1.00000, where has the "remainder" 0.00001 (One) gone? This is the limitation of computers, this is the mathematical imprecision inherent in programming (of the Matrix) and the eventuality of the One anomaly unable to be eliminated.

What is the equation then?

Not sure, but it definitely involves pi. The Keymaker refers to the window of time to open the door to the mainframe as 314 seconds. 3.14 is pi to three [significant figures], or the number of radians in half a circle. Half a circle is like the cross-section of a womb, similar to the alcove of Neo and Trinity's love scene - conceiving the next One?

"NEO", incidently, is an anagram of "ONE". Trinity and Neo - one on one; a choice - one or one. Leads us to 101. "101" is mentioned numerous times in Matrix 1 and Reloaded. Neo's room at the beginning, Merovingian is on the 101st floor, the 101 freeway of the car chase in Reloaded, then when Trinity is hacking into the power plant system, she resets the password to Z10N0101. Freaky. Indicates that she is a program because that's not some random password she's put in. 101 is binary for 5, which in zero-based binary counting: 000 is 1, 001, is 2, 010 is 3, 011 is 4, 100 is 5, 101 is 6 - And this is the 6th version of the Matrix! Then there's 303. 303 is the room Neo got shot in Matrix 1, the Oracle lives in room 303, it's also the hotel room number Trinity is in in Matrix 1 and it's seen at the end when Neo fights the Agents and Smith and begins to literally see the code that makes up the Matrix. 101 x 3 = 303, a trilogy, 3 + 0 + 3 = 6 = the 6th Matrix. Trinity means 3.

Who is the "mother" that the Architect refers to?

The Architect says, "Please," in an almost disapproving sense when Neo suggests the Oracle, but does not reveal who it really is or even directly that Neo is wrong. The architect was the one who created the Matrix; the co-creator is neither Persephone nor the Oracle. Both of them are only programs that have a purpose in the matrix, just like the rest. The Architect is in charge of the Matrix world and the co-creator is in charge of Zion. She has almost the same age as the Architect. Therefore, that woman is the Head Counsellor, the only woman of importance that lives in Zion and the one who asked for the two captains to volunteer at the council meeting. She's the one who knew all along about the Matrix. She was the one who told Zion's Defence Minister to cool off and to let Morpheus do his work so things could go as planned.

Or alternatively, it could indeed be the Oracle. She is the only program that truly wants humans to have a free choice... at the same time, she sees the future, because she knows the program code - she is like God - which is why Seraph protects her - see "Who is Seraph?" below.

What's so special about Neo's avatar?

Neo is a skilled hacker, and his avatar in the Matrix is based on the person that founded the AI of the original machines that eventually took over the world... How? Take a look at the disc he gave to the bloke at the door at the beginning of Matrix 1.

It said "DISC AI" on it. The hollowed book Neo takes the disc out of is "Simulacra and Simulation" - a collection of essays by the French postmodernist philosopher Jean Baudrillard. He opens it to the section "on Nihilism" (meaning nothing is truly known, etc.). "Baudrillard's concept of simulation is the creation of the real through conceptual or 'mythological' models which have no connection or origin in reality. The model becomes the determinant of our perception of reality--the real." And Morpheus says, "Welcome to the desert of the real," in Matrix 1. I'd say this book describes The Matrix to a tee. So this disc contains the key to the AI, and thus how to destroy the machines, so I think they'll use this info in Revolutions to ultimately destroy the machines, which means he'll have to go back to the nightclub and find the guy he gave it to. [I don't really see how this line of reasoning has anything to do with Neo's avatar, but the bit about going back to the nightclub might be on target given some of the Revolutions pics that people have posted.]

Who is Seraph?

The reason Seraph (the chinese guy Neo meets before meeting the Oracle) had golden code and was so spectacular is that he came from the first incarnation of the matrix, which was heaven. "Seraph" is singular for the plural "seraphim". The seraphim are the highest choir of angels and included amongst others: Lucifer, Gabriele, Raziel and Malaciah, and they sit on the 8th level of Heaven just one below God. So Seraph will obviously have a big part in Revolutions, but whose side will he be on - the machines or the humans?? That is the question.

The Twins

They are exiled programs that emulate the human myth of ghosts as the Oracle explained. They are programs behaving badly. Persephone killed one of the Merovingian's bodyguards with a silver bullet because he was emulating a werewolf. So if the Twins could phase into ghost form, why didn't he when his arm was trapped in the door of the garage? Was it because he was wounded or because he can't phase when his arm is trapped? No, of course not. The doors of that building, when shut, always led somewhere else (usually in the mountains) when opened again without the Keymaker's key. So if it were slammed shut due to the Twin phasing into ghost form, the Twin's arm would've ended up god knows where, but certainly not attached to the Twin's body.

________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo -at- divalists -dot- com
The body of message should read: unsubscribe nwr-list
________________________________________________

__________________


Scrobble all you want, we'll make more!

wow you know i never think about such things such as are explained above makes you want to watch the movies again to see what you would of otherwise missed thanks horizon