I said it in another thread but I cant find it anymore :/

The plot to this movie was simple. I was expecting more from the plot to be honest. I knew before Neo even stopped the sentinels in the "real" world that he was still in the matrix, because agent smith as still walking in that infected dude from the ship that stayed behind to receive word from the oracle - if that was the real world the dude wouldnt be able to function... a program cant just go and start controling a humans bodily functions, it would be like trying to run a linux program on a Windows machine without any emulators - it just wouldnt work.

The first movie had my mind doing circles for ages, this movie had me upset, and angry at the shameless corporate sellout for the next revolutions movie.

What was explained in this movie?

1. Rogue programs hide in the Matrix.
2. Oracle was one such program.
3. The "real" world was infact just another part of the Matrix.
4. There has been 5 previous Matrix's before Neo, but hes different cos he chose love.


This film is certainly good, and the effects are amazing. BUT - for a true matrix fan, I have to say that you will probably be left feeling a bit dissatisfied with this film - but maybe that is the nature of this film - to pose more questions than answer, and to wrap everything up in the last movie in November.

A final point to speculate on that I would raise. Neo at the end is in some sort of coma.... funnily enough hes in just the same kind of state that any of the characters in the matrix are like when they jack into "the matrix". My suggestion is that maybe he has actually left the matrix all together - kind of like how that kid in one of the animatrix episodes free's himself from the main matrix into what was deemed the "real world" - but we know different now.

Anyone care to comment on that?

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[3:57am] <@mystic-s> every person in the usa is gay and loves men. they also like putting bicycles up their bottom <--- hehehehe

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i dont think the plot was weak for this film.. i think the story is a little more subtle than in your face.. and you have to pay attention to really catch what the directors wanted to do with this movie..
and it is really about more questions than answers... sorta like empire strikes back.. it ends on a down note and leaves everyone wondering.. wtf..

and im not quite sure what youre talking about.. corporate sellout.. because the directors had planned on making a trilogy before the first penstroke of the script was taken

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Something i found on the imdb board. I didnt write it, just spreading the message:

*************************************************
While I agree with many here that questions remain unanswered, such as "is Zion another matrix", I don't think that detracts from the main point this episode was trying to make. For that reason I will refer to the Zion world as "real" in quotes. This episode is about how Love between human and machine will bring an end to the war. Just not the end that everyone thinks!

It is mentioned several times that the question is one of "purpose". That is, what is Neo's purpose in being the one? Is it to save humankind? Yes. Is it to save Machinekind? YES!

I believe Neo is an AI program created by the Architect, as is the Keymaker, Oracle, Persephone, etc. This is basically a given, when the Architect tells him he is a remainder of the equation; the only AI character with a choice. He is put into a human body, and therefore is a human "born in the matrix". This happens in the first movie. Morpheus and Trinity are "real" and have had information about Neo given to them by the Oracle program. Of course, the reason the oracle is able to "predict" things about Neo, is because she and Neo are both made by the Architect. Notice the predictions she makes for Morpheus and Trinity are both things that are under the Architect's control (that Morpheus will find him, and Trinity will fall in love with him). Trinity falling in love with Neo is CRITICAL to the Architect's plan. If she does not, he will let Neo die and generate another "One", as he has failed at his goal of producing an AI that can be loved.

At the end of the first movie, when Trinity proves her love for Neo, he is resurrected and half the equation is complete. At the end of Reloaded, when Neo proves his love for Trinity, she is resurrected. She resurrected him from her world (the "real" world), he did it from his world (the Matrix). Now, both sides of the equation are complete; mutual love between human and AI. This is the REVOLUTION that will save both humans and Machines. Why is love so important?

The Architect believes a part of his own prophesy (that Neo will save humanity), and describes this to Neo in the end. All past Neos had chosen the scientific/rational door or rebooting the matrix and trying again, this is a very "mechanical" response; it is not an irrational HUMAN response. Trying again means the scenario will be played out again - BUT FOR WHAT PURPOSE? The Architect's purpose is to develop an AI that can love and be loved. It is reasonable to think that this is the last element that machines/AI have not been able to reproduce. This is backed up by the fact that there is obviously no love from the Machines, or their Agent counterparts in the matrix. Even the other Matrix AI characters are not capable of true love. Merovingian "writes code" to produce lust in the woman with the cake, but is incapable of forcing love as an equation. Love requires free will.

This is why the Persephone scene is so relevant to the "purpose". She is EXTREMELY interested in seeing if there is true love between Neo and Trinity. She is part of the test that the Architect is giving Neo. By passing this test, he is given the Keymaker (of course not without some requisite action scenes). The second test that he passes is when he chooses the OTHER door. The architect has set up this door, so that if Neo does truly love Trinity, he has accomplished his goal and does not need to reboot the matrix. He mentions that no past "Ones" have had such a strong attachment to a single person. Now the Architect is sure that he has finally created love, he is willing to risk it all on this bet of his. He is hoping that since machines/AI can love, this will ultimately bring an end to war. Now that love between Trinity (Human) and Neo(Machine/AI) has happened for the first time, it will start a revolution whereby Machines and Humans can begin to live in harmony. This is foreshadowed by the Councilman who takes Neo down to the engine room. He basically says that at this point, humans and machines cannot live without one another (so ultimate human victory is out of the question). The architect also says that the Machines are willing to take the risk if neo does chose the non-reloading door. This indicates that the powers that be in the machine world control, or at least agree with what the Architect is doing. Possibly the machines don't absolutely control the matrix, even though they built it?

In the interest of wrapping up, I will not go into detail on Agent Smith, but I believe he represents a different mindset within the machines. The architect feels that the way to proceed is to bring the humans and machines together. The humans and machines want to eradicate each other. Agent Smith has actually made a bigger transformation than Neo. He has gone from a machine with a rogue agenda, into the matrix, stolen free will and transport into the human mind from Neo's program, and is now in the Zion world. He is a mirror to Neo, both opposite and similar. He is a machine that has acquired free will and ability to take human form. Neo is also AI, but sees things from the Human perspective. Smith has free will and Hate, Neo has free will and Love. The Humans really don't seem to have much to do in the movies at all except be sort of a Turing test for the Architect. Without non-human Neo, they pretty much get wasted by the Machines every time. The architect's speech backs this up. The first two movies showed the successful development of a human mind born in the Matrix. The final movie will be the test of this new AI based humanity against the machine mindset. Kind of a trial by fire of the Architect's theory that Love is the answer.

The final war is not necessarily between humans and machines, but rather between the ideals of free will or not. Smith, although he has free will has made his power in the matrix one of replication. Exact copies. Very machine like. Neo is a machine intelligence modeled after humans, and has passed the ultimate human test of love. Seems like a good part of the machine world is on the side of the Architect, and that Smith and his replicants are the rogues now. The ultimate downfall of Smith will be his newly found humanity, proving to all the machines that free will and love will win in the end.

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hahah i forgot who said it, but yeah the fighting scenes do look like they're dancing. especially that gay part before he went to see the oracle...that fight scene was really slow and lame. and we already kno wthat new and trinity are in love, but that doesnt mean they gotta waste 10 minutes on a dumb ass rave scene. i pretty much only liked 2 scenes. the highway and the part where he fucked up all the agents in the parking lot or whatever, but even in that scene some of it was stupid. hahaha they had to do bullet time for like every scene which imo is kinda dumb. the matrix1 seemed like the action was faster, i mean after all neo is supposed to be fast right? i guess he lost some of his power cause he is slow as fuck now. anyways, maybe its because i had TOO HIGH EXPECTATIONS..but its just my opinion. i think revolutions will be better.

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Can anyone tell me who the guy is at the very end of the movie. Is it the guy who cut his hand earlier, if so who is he?
Also, does that mean Zion is totally wiped out with him being the only survivor?

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The guy they show at the end *bane* is agent smith in a human body. If you noticed the part right after they turned off the lights in Zion, two guys are running from smith and one of them gets caught and copied. That agent smith uses the hardline and goes to zion. He cuts his hand later because agent smith wanted to see if he was real, and if he could bleed.

Oh, and Zion hasn't been reached yet. Bane/Smith was the only one left of the ships that got destroyed.

Last edited by chrpnk on 05-19-2003 at 02:05 AM

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quote:

---

Originally posted by slaz
I said it in another thread but I cant find it anymore :/

The plot to this movie was simple. I was expecting more from the plot to be honest. I knew before Neo even stopped the sentinels in the "real" world that he was still in the matrix, because agent smith as still walking in that infected dude from the ship that stayed behind to receive word from the oracle - if that was the real world the dude wouldnt be able to function... a program cant just go and start controling a humans bodily functions, it would be like trying to run a linux program on a Windows machine without any emulators - it just wouldnt work.

The first movie had my mind doing circles for ages, this movie had me upset, and angry at the shameless corporate sellout for the next revolutions movie.

What was explained in this movie?

1. Rogue programs hide in the Matrix.
2. Oracle was one such program.
3. The "real" world was infact just another part of the Matrix.
4. There has been 5 previous Matrix's before Neo, but hes different cos he chose love.


This film is certainly good, and the effects are amazing. BUT - for a true matrix fan, I have to say that you will probably be left feeling a bit dissatisfied with this film - but maybe that is the nature of this film - to pose more questions than answer, and to wrap everything up in the last movie in November.

A final point to speculate on that I would raise. Neo at the end is in some sort of coma.... funnily enough hes in just the same kind of state that any of the characters in the matrix are like when they jack into "the matrix". My suggestion is that maybe he has actually left the matrix all together - kind of like how that kid in one of the animatrix episodes free's himself from the main matrix into what was deemed the "real world" - but we know different now.

Anyone care to comment on that?

---

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I kind of wish the film had not opened with the full Trinity fight scene. It would've been better if they only showed the portion where she is shot and then Neo wakes up. Then to see the complete fight sequence later on in the film would've kicked a$$!

I don't know about you... but when I see a couple in love... I expect a wider range of emotions to be shared between the two characters than what we are getting from Neo and Trinity. Although, I think Keanu is making a stonger attempt than Carrie. She just isn't convincing enough. Trinity is so deadpan. She's not putting enough into it. That's the only reason I roll my eyes at their relationship. If there was more chemistry between them I'd be more accepting of the lovey-dovey-mushy stuff (ie. making out in the elevator).

The African rave thing was fucking ridiculous. And too damn long. It was just wrong.

And was Zion a disappointment for anyone else? I was expecting something completely different.

Did anyone else find Link (the guy with the dreads) kinda dopey compared to the Nebuchadnezzar crew members from the 1st film?

That Commander Lock guy looked constipated. He was in constant pissed-off/cry-baby mode. The degree to which he was upset was laughable.

After Neo fights the hundred Agent Smiths, where was the blood? C'mon man. And then he spills one drop later on fighting less formidable opponents. Without blood and bruising it doesn't feel like anyone's getting hurt. What's a fight without pain? And the difference between the fight scenes in the first film and this one is that these sequences all looked computer animated ala CG Neo.

Everyone in the theater laughed when the snobby dude Merovingian said swearing in French was like "Wiping your ass with silk."

Can someone explain to me what happened to the woman who ate the cake? Did she have an orgasm? Did she have to pee? What?

Oh my god. That Monica Belluci is just luscious. I could just gobble her up.

What was all that stuff The Oracle said about Ghosts, Angels, Vampires, Werewolves, and Aliens? She had an explanation but I didn't catch it. I thought the Oracle said this was a sign that a program was doing something it wasn't supposed to be doing and Neo said "programs hacking other programs." ???

As soon as I saw the Twins powers I thought of Nightcrawler from X-Men 2. And after the freeway scene (which was very cool) I thought... Nightcrawler's assasination attempt on the President kicked more ass.

I DID like that freeway scene. Especially when Trinity goes into oncoming traffic on the motorcycle.

Niobe had like one fight scene that lasted 3 seconds. That Jada Pinkett is one hell of an actress ain't she? Not.

The Architect blew my mind. I'm going to have to watch the movie 3 more times just to figure out all the shit he said. I mean that business about 5 other Neos trying and failing... I thought what is this? Groundhog Day?

At the end Neo is able to stop the Sentinels out of The Matrix. What does this mean? That the real world is not real? That they've been in the Matrix all along without realizing it?

I coulda sworn that last year I heard Jet Li was supposed to be in this film. Around the same time the news that Aaliyah was cast to be in the film. In the trailers I thought Seraph (the Oracle's bodyguard) was Jet Li. But it turns out he's not. Does anyone else recall the same rumour?

Minor complaints aside, I still liked this film and can't wait for Revolutions!

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first of all..if you cant tell the difference in having an orgasm. and having to pee.. theres something wrong somewhere.. someone needs to have a talk with you...

i dont care what people think of the movie.. its their opinion.. i liked it alot.. and so far.. every reason anyones given for the reasons that this film wasnt very good.. are not only arguable.. but completely invalid... i dont understand why people dont see the importance of the zion scenes.. the love scenes.. the rave scenes.. its to show these peoples hope.. and what they live for.. the reason their fighting..whats so hard to understand and accept this as a plotline...

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"Nothing says OBEY ME like a severed head on a fence post,"

Last edited by napalmfuzz on 05-20-2003 at 03:21 AM

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Here's my take on the story. Zion is real, Neo is a Trojan Horse planted by the machines so all of Zion won't be destroyed. Why not destory Zion completely? An enemy you know is a lot less dangerous than an enemy you don't know.

The machines let Zion exist so that every human that manage to escape The Matrix will eventually end up there. Every once in a while you send in an army to clean house but you don't destroy everything. Leave enough so that new escapees can build another Zion, when it gets too big you destroy it again.

I think Neo is some combination of man-machine just like the Zion man that Agent Smith infected is. That explains why he has so much power inside The Matrix and how he can control the machines even outside The Matrix. The humans of Zion has to think that he's a human anointed by some "god" in order to accept him as one of them.

I think the machines know exactly what will happen with the Neo/Zion vs. Machines war but I think that Agent Smith is an unexplained virus that might just throw a wrench into the whole machines plan.

Crazy, yes, but I always get crazy ideas like these when I read a good sci-fi book.

Copied from Box Office Mojo.

Let analyse The Matrix.

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DragonWar

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So have a talk with me then. I can tell the difference between an orgasm and peeing just fine. The scene was not done as well as it could have been. It wasn't like she was cumming all over the place like Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally (and Meg was faking). The CG animation of her vagina could've been her bladder exploding for all I know. Did she moan even once? No. Did she look delighted with orgasmic pleasure? No. Did she look embarassed, stand up and leave the table like she crapped her pants? YES.

Yeah, that's all good. I understand the importance of all the stuff mentioned. Again, it's HOW they were done. Zion could've been better. The love scenes could've been better. The rave scene could've been better. Show peoples hope? Fine. Show what they live for? Fine. Show what they're fighting for? Fine. It's easy to understand and accept all that and the plotline. But I don't have to accept the film as a masterpiece if it isn't. If I think they could've done ALL OF IT... better, that's my opinion.

Last edited by Pra3t0 on 05-20-2003 at 02:59 AM

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Why can't people read previous posts in a thread before posting?

Thanks for that paste, [Pb]. It was an interesting read and certainly clued me in to several little things I missed in the theater. And now I can see the significance of the progression from "Reloaded" to "Revolutions". I'll definitely have to watch M2 a couple more times to get this all to congeal in my head.

FuZZ, aside from the people who only wanted to see the Matrix for the action scenes, the reason folks are having problems with the "complicated" plot in this movie is that these are the same idiots who thought they were so smart by gleaning little tidbits of pop psychology from the first movie.

It was such a treat for most people who don't think too much to be handed an interesting concept on a silver platter in the first movie -- all they had to do was think "What if I live in a Matrix?" and suddenly they felt like geniuses because the media was hyping the "makes-you-think" aspect of the movie.

Now all of a sudden these same folks find themselves unable (or simply unwilling) to discover the deeper thematic motifs and symbols of Matrix 2. They whine, "Bad Matrix Reloaded! You were supposed to hand us more pearls of wisdom through which we can feel intelligent without actually having to do any thinking!" They've never paid enough attention in literature classes in school to understand how to think critically about a plotline, and now they either (a) truly don't see the rich literary structure being developed, or (b) see that some such structure is there but are pissed off that they don't follow it.

I must confess that I was in group (b) for a while after seeing the movie until reading some helpful posts such as that one pasted from IMDB. I think it's because I missed a couple key things in the movie, like the fact that that Bane guy had been infected. The whole movie I thought he was just a bastard in league with the Agents like Pantoliano in the first movie. So I missed the whole Smith half of the AI-nee-human/human-nee-AI dichotomy.

I look forward to some more in-depth discussion of the movie after I watch it a few more times and once the #vcdq ban on M2 comments is lifted.

[edit] I certainly do agree that parts of the movie already mentioned were done poorly. The rave scene almost made me feel like I'd rather be living with the machines! But I suppose that was also a plot point ... because I presume that Neo's conversation with the Councillor took place while the rave was still going on. They went to the machine room -- away from the carnal humanity of the rave -- and then commented on how "pleasant an evening it was". Hmm ... yeah, now that I think about it, I guess that probly was the point of the rave scene -- to go way overboard on the "humanity" side of things and show that a balance between machine and man is the optimal goal. What do you think, Pra3t0? [/edit]

Last edited by horizonstar on 05-20-2003 at 03:44 AM

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Below I offer what a group of us has put together by actually mapping out the events and making a glossary of individuals and what they actually said – to possibly offer a bit more of an explanation to the path that this movie offered: I am not sure if to many people truly understand what this movie is actually saying, so I will try to explain it for those that don't get what they just saw… The first thing I recommend is that you try to remove your ego, people all have them - so they believe that the movie must be about people. But actually it is about software and mainframe code.

The main computer has been caught in a loop cycle for 5 iterations, and it is trying to find a variance that will break this cycle by utilizing a random bit anomaly piece of software (Neo), to allow it to fully complete its cycle. It has tried this before, but has always failed in its attempts. It is trying to factor in all variables of its program to make absolute sure of complete success before it attempts to actually implement the complete procedure, like a good piece of software (debugging iteself - "it is the "why" that is important"). Beta software waiting to go gold. … The only factor that was not counted in was an anomaly of two programs intersecting, and one becoming a self-replicating virus bent on absolute destruction (Smith), and the anomoly (Neo) complementing his program with protectorate software. …

This is a brilliant movie, that once you wrap your head around, its really just an ultimate version of Tron with no human watchers (Jeff Bridges), of a computer SuperNoc running through a simulation with all possible factors being worked first, before it initializes the program for real…

If Neo completes his role and meets his ultimate purpose as software, then our hero allows the computer to see all variances that it will need to contend with, so that it can fully implement the real program on our world…

Matrix - main base operating system…

Zion - secondary operating system for software that can no longer function in the main sytem - but can be utilized to build a new matrix system…

Neo - Random bit anomaly software for breaking loop cycle – utilized by the Oracle and Architect software to be a random variable to upgrade itself – upgraded with protectorate code from Smith (Anti-Virus)…

Trinity - complement software to aid in Neo's completion of purpose…

Morpheus and Crew - collector programs for mainframe to try to enable the end of the loop cycle…

Architect - Mainframe operating system…

Oracle - old Macro Software that has been part of all 5 iterations of the loop and can see all variances…

Oracle's Protector - Mainframe hard code software…

Merovingian - old Neo that did not fully implement objective in beta 5.0…

Merovingian's Wife - old trinity code…

Twins, and Merovingian's Guards - old base black ice protector code…

Head Counselor in Zion - Advisor for Mainframe that advises Neo along with his upgrade to not touch the main bios (engineering) systems…

Key Maker - come on now, to easy, a simple keygen…

Smith - self-replicating virus - now capable of moving to either system – infused with anomaly code from Neo…

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Cool ... I just had an interesting thought (doesn't happen often), and I wanted to know what y'all think ...

In the Animatrix there's that kid who "frees himself" from the Matrix -- he's the annoying kid who hangs around Neo like a barnacle in Reloaded. Now, remember in the Animatrix, either Trinity or Neo remarks that they never thought "self-actualization/realization/whatever they called it" was possible. That is, they'd never heard of anybody before who woke himself up out of the Matrix.

Now that we suddenly see that there's an "outer Matrix", perhaps this kid's talent will come in handy. Maybe he could help everyone in Zion to "wake up" from the outer Matrix.

We don't know exactly what happened to Neo at the end of Reloaded, but presumably he is "awake" in the REAL real world (if there is such a thing), and so you might posit that Neo, not the kid, would be the one to come back into the outer Matrix and teach everyone how to really wake up. But I'm not sure that he woke himself up from the outer Matrix at the end of the movie -- that is, I'm not sure he would be able to repeat the process at will. That's why I think the kid might come in handy.

Of course, it might also be the case that all you have to do to wake up from the outer Matrix is become aware of its existence, as Neo does at the end. In which case, he would just need to tell Zion the truth (if there is such a thing), and suddenly they'd all be free (if there is such a state).

Ok, that's my thought.

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hmm Ive got 3 thoughts on explanations.

1. There are no more robots left in the REAL real world and all the matrixes are just being run by programs. Maybe there are some automated machine in the REAL real world that makes new humans.

2. There are no more humans and machines left in the REAL real world and everything in all the matrixes are just programs.

3. The matrixes are some kind of experiment by humans, the machines never took over the world and what not.

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I found this script of the Architect's conversation with Neo on IMDb, where it was reposted from somewhere else. I hope it helps some of you as you rethink the movie.

#####
The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Others? What others? How many? Answer me!'*

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bull****.*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: You can't control me! **** you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull****.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Bull****!*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we?

Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason.

An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

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quote:

---

Did anyone else find Link (the guy with the dreads) kinda dopey compared to the Nebuchadnezzar crew members from the 1st film?

---

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Loving God.... Vengeful God...

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Just grabbed the CTP Reloaded release and watched it again, to see if I missed out on anything at the theater.

If you recall in The Matrix while Agent Smith is interrogating Morpheus, he takes out his earpiece. Shortly, Neo and Trinity have their little lobby spree and make their way up to the rooftop. Then Agents Brown and Jones walk in on Smith sans earpiece.

Agent Jones: What were you doing?
Agent Brown: He doesn't know.
Agent Smith: Know what? (Puts earpiece back in.)

Now everyone seems to be arguing that Smith simply couldn't transfer himself into someone else. If you recall, when the agents were interrogating Morpheus, Tank showed Neo how his alpha-pattern would be changed from a very dynamic pulse to a static one. Thus a cracked mind is in fact taken over by the machines. Smith can do this at his own will now, hence his ability to have been transferred into Bane and be subsequently unplugged back to the "real" world. Training sims, weapons, clothing, etc. are loaded via the construct into the mind and into the matrix. What's to stop this from being a two-way street? If the avatar dies, the host dies. If the avatar is infected, the host... is infected. Only Smith and Smith himself is capable of this, because of his interaction with Neo. Somehow, his clones cannot because they are merely in host bodies. Think of SafeDisc protection on CD's; a sole part of a program which cannot be replicated absolutely.

Jump to the beginning of Reloaded. Smith knows exactly where to find Neo and as a symbol of his enhanced reformation, bequeaths to him his earpiece, which he no longer needs thanks to the 'infection' passed on from Neo at the end of The Matrix. But this is the "real" world, no? Of course it's not, because Neo proves this near the end when he "feels" the machines and is able to stop them.

Neo: Something's different.
Trinity: What?
Neo: I can feel them.

Hmm. Just like a 'glitch' (deja-vu) in the original matrix when something was changed. He even knows the squiddies are sending in a bomb, but normally they are search and destory. Neo saves the day and passes out. We see a small council discussing the fact that 'someone screwed up' and an EMP device was triggered. The sole survivor of that set-up being Bane/Smith. He shows no physical sign of harm yet is in the same kind of coma as Neo -- as a result of the EMP (or his own powers in Zion, like Neo's) perhaps? I find it suspicious that Neo's disabling of the fast-approaching squiddies resembles an EMP blast, rendering him comatose just as Bane/Smith's EMP trigger left him. Since Neo's integration with Smith, he is more machine-esque or is at least subconsciously aware that he is more than just human. Consequently he is mildly affected by this 'mental EMP' and slips into a coma. EMP's simply temporarily disable electrical circuitry, it doesn't necessarily make if non-functional indefinitely. I believe Neo is in limbo between the inner-matrix (Zion) and the real world, or else he is in the real world itself.

I also believe the 'systemic anomaly' that The Architect speaks of is the machines' version of human AI (Neo) and its ability to make a dynamic choice. Where the previous AI chose humanity, (Zion) they failed as a perfect AI because that was the path it was predicated to take; it didn't learn. Since its choice is pre-determined, it knows that if it chooses to re-enter the source, Zion will start over with 23 people and the matrix will survive; of course to preserve the machines which depend on the bioelectricity. AI also 'knew' that if it chose the other door, it would hail destruction, all humans would die and the machines would be forced to survive by whatever 'other means' it was that The Architect spoke of. Evolution kicks in during generation-six and AI has finally learned to love, because it has decided to choose on its own instead of the following the pre-determined 'choices' set before it. This is apparent as Neo is with The Architect with the mass of screens behind him, each one representing a unique response to conversational exchange with The Architect.

Okay, the Bros. did a major Jedi mind-fuck on me. I'll admit to that much.

*Dons an asbestos suit*

Flaaaame onnn!

Last edited by cyberspaz on 05-21-2003 at 04:09 PM

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I have read everything you guys wrote, and i must say, some interisting remarks in here, i definetely gonna see the movie again, because i liked it, i understand some dudes are disappointed in the movie, but i thing the reason for that is all the fucking hype,...i always go to a movie with the thought , this movie gonna suck...
and then you CAN have the chance and the luck or not, that it turns out a better way,
anyway the action scenes were cool, i missed the guns i admit,
the rave scene, was nice, but i hated the long speech before it from morpheus, i turned my head in shame, because i thought he was making a fool out of himself, anyway the end of the speech and the shouthing made it good,
for the rest , nice story, i like the thought they are in a backupmatrix,, but i dotn like the idea that neo is also a program...
the trinity love scene was a bit stupid, and i dont remember that guy who followed neo always in zion
overall score, definitely a 9

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the movie is great, I would give it a 9.5. I always go into movies as I go into doing anything else. Hope for the best and expect the worst.

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